Member Info for devonplay

"a company with over 150 years history" just remind me, how many times has SGI gone bust? Is it 2 or 3 times?
"At some stage the shares will attract buyers as well." you've been saying that for nearly 3 years now!
"due course should translate into actual turnover" hang on, you said they were looking at £20m turnover and £1m profit for last year! The reality was £11m turnover and £4.5m loss. You'll excuse us if we take your predictions with slightly more than a grain of salt.
I'm afraid you find anything negative that doesn't fit in with your ramps, but so far the "negatives" have turned out to be more accurate than your predictions! ;) LOL
"Chiefstamper, bad publicity?" you mean like this: (from Forbes)
"A similar type of investment program was being operated in the UK by Stanley Gibbons, a respected stamp dealer that also published a catalog of all the items they sell, namely the British Commonwealth. Their scheme involved some 3,000 investors purchasing 54 million pounds in stamps ($65 million) at the SG catalog price on which they promised to pay 5% or 7% rates of return for stamps held for 5 or 10 years respectively. At the end of the holding period SG would buy back the stamps at the then SG catalog price with 80% of the value increase going to the investor. Their approach correctly focused on investment quality stamps. The flaw in their approach was that SG constantly increased the catalog prices of their stamps well above any other world catalog since they could then sell to their new investors at such prices. This worked until stamp collector demographics dictated falling prices causing new investment to dry up and old investors to cash out. Rather than making good on its promises to the investors and being saddled with hugely overvalues stamp returns, the company declared bankruptcy."

"Showpiece Technologies Ltd is a Phoenix vehicle set up in August 2021, with three Directors, one of whom is Graham Shircore."
It's so interconnected that it must look like a viper's nest on a flow chart!
Phoenix control the future of SGI through it's holding of SG Pheonix, a position in the equity via Aurora, the IT they manage, SGI's cap injection into Phoenix's Castelnau vehicle from Aurora and SG Phoenix and SGI's "partnership" with Showpiece Technologies ( a business set up by Phoenix)
It makes you wonder why they keep poor old SGI public with so many party related connections. I guess that's cause they need "fuel" for the bonfire...why don't they take it private and look for a trade sale? My guess, very few corporate takers, but there's always pi's...they always feed the machine.
"There is a considerable danger of investors losing their money here" spot on Carpe. You didn't really need to do any research to understand Showpiece Technologies would have Phoenix's finger prints all of it...it just was so obvious that would be the case.
Poor liquidity, so much inter-connectivity, it's a bear trap for the unwary....and that double digit spread when you have to bundle.

Only the usual reprobates.

Hi Mr Solo, yes I believe it is the same REA Pref's and so the same coupon. I also own some of their Sterling Bonds.
I'll check out your Volta post! Yes it's been a stella performance from PEY/S and I just added a few more VLS in the last few days, I've always rated them , even when we were under water!
My most recent investment has been in private equity in a growth market, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I've had one reprice in the last few days and it's given me a healthy x4 (before SEIS and EIS uplift). You can't sniff at 400%!
I need to think about opening a Euro account somewhere. I've had my eye on Volta for ages, but never quite pressed the button. Interestingly, I've been giving a little bit of thought to MYI, not sure if it's got the yield kick you like, but I think it might be a sensible play in the current state of the game.
On the subject if REA, I see there's been a new buyer come to the common stock today, I guess it attractive in the world of $100 petrol, they use a lot of palm oil as fuel over there. I keep thinking about initiating a position that would put me across the whole cap table.
I just added a bit of debt from these guys: Modulaire https://www.modulairegroup.com/ bought around par with a 6% plus yield. Government money is going their wayand it's quick to deploy their kit in an age of labour shortages.
On the subject of esoteric income, Volta, have you ever considered Litigation Funding? There's a crowd who offer it to retail investors and the returns, and losses, can be "stella" https://www.axiafunder.com/
Losses have the potential of being greater than the capital committed, but so far they've won the majority of the cases!
I seen to remember seeing chatter on the p2p forum suggesting irr of 70% on a broad portfolio.
Oh yes, I've also been buying VOD. Not a bad yield and it's so out of fashion, but I have a sneaky feeling it's growth potential is being under valued, and for me, it's at least averaged me down LOL I Mercantile have been building a position.

So many questions, so much uncertainty....one thing we can be sure of:
"Rather than making good on its promises to the investors and being saddled with hugely overvalues stamp returns, the company declared bankruptcy." Source Forbes.
Let's hope SGI don't pull that trick again!
Phoenix get to keep the stamp if SGI defaults and would have taken 80% of any profits via Castelnau on the fractional issue as well as any security offered over the assets via the debt instrument. Talk about sitting pretty! What would the ordinary holders of SGI get?.........a big fat 0

"From the Showpiece site: "Will I be able to sell my pieces at a later date?

"Rather than making good on its promises to the investors and being saddled with hugely overvalues stamp returns, the company declared bankruptcy." Source Forbes.

Let's hope SGI don't pull that trick again!

Phoenix get to keep the stamp if SGI defaults and would have taken 80% of any profits via Castelnau on the fractional issue as well as any security offered over the assets via the debt instrument. Talk about sitting pretty! What would the ordinary holders of SGI get?.........a big fat 0

I can't say I disagree Carpe, I can see a sudden downward move on the secondary market to sub £30.00.
Let's face it, it could be like one of those previous SGI schemes!
"A similar type of investment program was being operated in the UK by Stanley Gibbons, a respected stamp dealer that also published a catalog of all the items they sell, namely the British Commonwealth. Their scheme involved some 3,000 investors purchasing 54 million pounds in stamps ($65 million) at the SG catalog price on which they promised to pay 5% or 7% rates of return for stamps held for 5 or 10 years respectively. At the end of the holding period SG would buy back the stamps at the then SG catalog price with 80% of the value increase going to the investor. Their approach correctly focused on investment quality stamps. The flaw in their approach was that SG constantly increased the catalog prices of their stamps well above any other world catalog since they could then sell to their new investors at such prices. This worked until stamp collector demographics dictated falling prices causing new investment to dry up and old investors to cash out. Rather than making good on its promises to the investors and being saddled with hugely overvalues stamp returns, the company declared bankruptcy." Source Forbes.
I'd also worry about the future value of Old Magenta herself. I mean surely, when everyone hold a bit of it, it in someway devalues the original. How exclusive is something that 100,000 disgruntled people also own? It's not like there's an intrinsic utility value in any stamp. You can see that in one of the links Pealrs posted "Legendary treasures sell briskly, but stamp results fall short of hopes" STAMP RESULTS FALL SHORT OF HOPES (thanks Pearls).
Get this wrong and they risk been stuck with a diminishing valued asset, a destroyed brand and litigation! Bankruptcy, they have before!
I guess we've seen it all before. STAMP RESULTS FALL SHORT OF HOPES , same could be said of SGI.....
Too many RED flags to be taken seriously.

I can't say I disagree Carpe, I can see a sudden downward move on the secondary market to sub £30.00.
Let's face it, it could be like one of those previous SGI schemes!
"A similar type of investment program was being operated in the UK by Stanley Gibbons, a respected stamp dealer that also published a catalog of all the items they sell, namely the British Commonwealth. Their scheme involved some 3,000 investors purchasing 54 million pounds in stamps ($65 million) at the SG catalog price on which they promised to pay 5% or 7% rates of return for stamps held for 5 or 10 years respectively. At the end of the holding period SG would buy back the stamps at the then SG catalog price with 80% of the value increase going to the investor. Their approach correctly focused on investment quality stamps. The flaw in their approach was that SG constantly increased the catalog prices of their stamps well above any other world catalog since they could then sell to their new investors at such prices. This worked until stamp collector demographics dictated falling prices causing new investment to dry up and old investors to cash out. Rather than making good on its promises to the investors and being saddled with hugely overvalues stamp returns, the company declared bankruptcy." Source Forbes.
I'd also worry about the future value of Old Magenta herself. I mean surely, when everyone hold a bit of it, it in someway devalues the original. How exclusive is something that 100,000 disgruntled people also own? It's not like there's an intrinsic utility value in any stamp. You can see that in one of the links Pealrs posted "Legendary treasures sell briskly, but stamp results fall short of hopes" STAMP RESULTS FALL SHORT OF HOPES (thanks Pearls).
Get this wrong and they risk been stuck with a diminishing valued asset, a destroyed brand and litigation! Bankruptcy, they have before!
I guess we've seen it all before. STAMP RESULTS FALL SHORT OF HOPES , same could be said of SGI.....
Too many RED flags to be taken seriously.

Overdrive indeed, early adopter discount on a knock-down priced asset.
Doesn't that make if feel exclusive....I wonder if they are offering anything else with it? Maybe a discount on a wedding gift, cremation or train set? LOL Perhaps a package? Something for Grandma's future, Little Johnny and the Bride and Groom? hahahaha
People are actually going to fall for this shake down? What do you call discount on a discounted item? - Not very desirable!
I think punters willing to buy this will be as elusive as profits from SGI....4,5 million loss last year on 11 million turnover. Ouchy
Overdrive, I think they've smashed it into an urn! They really know what they are doing.... ;)

With less than a week to go for the Castelnau IPO it might be worth looking at the impact, so far, on SGI:
Share price: dissipated, we are drifting back down.
Marketing Overdrive: if that happened I missed it! I think we can call it less overdrive and more underwhelming.
On a risk adjusted basis it might be worth dumping SGI and buying Castelnau on the basis that Castelnau may squander your money less quickly.
I haven't seen much in terms of coverage of Castelnau IPO, so I won't be surprised if it's a damp squib. Overall, both best avoided unless you've got an exit route and debt insurance in place like Phoenix.

I see Civitas is having to defend it self against accusation of complex interwoven related party transactions.
Long before a hedge fund when short and published markets discounted the price against NAV.
Institutions hate it, even since the scandal of IT's holding each other stock within the same fund house. Now they have to publish related party holding on a regular basis.........complex financial instruments, cross holdings and share swaps should always be a massive Red Flag to private investors....I wish I could think I could think of a recent, or upcoming example.
Sometimes they are so complex you can't explain it at an AGM. Best avoided, the pro's do and it's usually the pi's left wondering what went wrong.

"Stanley Gibbons can NOW rebuild"
At last Pearls, you've admitted you've been wrong for the last 21/2 years!
Wrong about the British Chinese flocking to buy stamps,
Wrong about the Auctions,
Wrong about young hobbyist,
Wrong about the hordes of people collecting stamps during lock-down!
Wrong with all the delusional forecasts...but now they present you another scrap of hope, a scrap still managed by the same people who've failed for the last 2 years. But this time, they've found a partial route out....
Now it's time to "rebuild" not so different as the last article YOU published "DANGEROUS, FAILED AND STEAMING IN TO THE UNKONW"...except they've deleveraged now and flogging to the public.
Even after all this pumping, and averaging down, you must still be way out of pocket, but then that's what you get if you don't do the research....you remember, when you jumped in here with both feet and realised what a can of worms it was? That's what you said.
Now it's an even more complex can of cross-holding worms, managed by the same team, that have not been able to "rebuild" in the last few years... they've worked out their exit, what are you going to do with the pocket of worms they leave behind for you?

Well, they've had a couple of years to change the "flotsam and jestam" and they've decided to IPO Phoenix SG's equity.
I wonder what that tells us?
I guess they have changed it, they've divested it into another vehicle and offered it to the public....
Wonder why they would do that if they thought the value of SGI was going to go up?
I mean they've sort divested themselves of it after all...and then are trying to offload it onto the public.

Yeah could be very interesting, something's got to happen. Phoenix haven't managed to turn this around after a couple of years, so time must be against it. At 1% of their portfolio, it's just flotsam and jestam on their balance sheet.
If it doesn't work out, then I think it could be last chance saloon.
I doubt they'll be notifying anything significant. If it was then it would have appeared in the Pathfinder for "Castelnau". It would after all be a party related issue and the Pathfinder only covers Phoenix SG moving it's equity into the IPO vehicle. Deleveraging it's exposure to SGI.
If they don't report on their "Magenta" wheeze then I'd be concerned.....it's probably an indication that's not been a sparkling success. Interesting times indeed.

Eeeerrrr, are there any declared short positions? Not that I can find. It's natural market reaction to a period of upwards followed by unexpected, and maybe concerning, news.
30% discount to NAV isn't particularly cheap or worrying, lots of PE trade at large discounts during periods of change. Given the news and stretched market sentiment it could move further down. Is that something to worry about? Not in my mind, it's in the nature of speculative investing in early stage companies. It's a bumpy ride.
Discount today on CLDN, a long established market participant that pays a div. and has a basket of unlisted holdings? 23%..discount.
It could yet go lower.

"Devon as our resident naysayer here continues to put every negative issue out there, but he too fails to acknowledge the Phoenix role and support which is intended to be very long term."
I've just clearly articulated the Phoenix role:
"I mean Phoenix has around 1% in SGI's equity, the equivalent of a corporate bet. Which they've managed to deleverage by backing some of that exposure into an IPO "Castelnau" and securing it through a debt instrument which gives them cover over the assets, unlike other ordinary shareholders. Although, I don't think we actually know the full terms of the debt agreement. "
What's not to understand?

Nothing wrong with a bet, as long as you don't confuse it with an investment.
I mean Phoenix has around 1% in SGI's equity, the equivalent of a corporate bet. Which they've managed to deleverage by backing some of that exposure into an IPO "Castelnau" and securing it through a debt instrument which gives them cover over the assets, unlike other ordinary shareholders. Although, I don't think we actually know the full terms of the debt agreement.
I wonder if your bookie will give you the same options to cover your bet? Sell some of it to someone else and cover it through the assets...LOL I doubt it.
If you believe in an efficient market, Castelnau and Magenta are already reflected in the share price.
An increase in investment quality stamps? Maybe, but that's a very small market, where as "hobby stamps" are much more vulnerable to dislocation by living expenses increases and uncertainty, as the last 12 months has proved. SGI's turnover went down, not up in a period of disruption. So, I cant see the increase in value coming anytime soon myself.

Maybe, but of course it could be quite the opposite. After all:
Negative EPS, last report showed growing losses, increased debt and collapse in turnover.
There's no visibility on any future earnings stream, if there is any, and no party related statement, so nothing in terms of assets in another company's, listed or not, equity.
Against a background of stag inflation and increased energy prices, that's likely to effect SGI's older customer disproportionally it could look very expensive indeed....with nothing to suggest they are attracting younger clients, who will also be facing increased living expenses, it's no more than a gamble, and a gamble with the odd stacked against it.
So more than many, I'd love to understand how it could be cheap? When there's nothing, but hope to base an estimate of value on.
What we do know is it has negative earning per share, no increase in turnover, so you can't put a value on the growth, defaulted on it's debt, so reliant on good will, the equity has very little intrinsic value beyond HOPE.
What value hope?
In a market that you can buy UK assets, some of them income generating, at greater discount than you could this morning.
Then you have to deduct from your valuations opportunity cost, after all it's a gamble, and exit costs. There's more often than not a double digit spread....

" I'm intending to add more, but I'll wait to see if " buy on the rumour, sell on the news"
- it's not a bad plan waiting to buy after a good set of results or news release, you may miss out on a bit, but you may also gain a lot more than the rush to buy crowd.
For the moment, sitting on my hands again.

Sellers out in force today, people have caught on that it's another false dawn.

Here you go, if you want to do something good with excess cash https://www.triodoscrowdfunding.co.uk/
You can support a range of ethical, community and charities and I can guarantee it's a nicer feeling that owning more stuff. You can choose to take interest or not, and you'll hear from most of the charities every 6 months. We've received a nice email today from treesforlife who are rewilding the part of Scotland - now that proper history for you -
https://treesforlife.org.uk/crowdfunder-success-demonstrates-public-support-for-rewilding/ they raised 1/6th of SGI's market cap within 48hrs.
https://treesforlife.org.uk/
Now that's got to be better than ol' florin..who ever she is ;)
I've support most campaigns over the last 12 month, amazing what you learn. Paces Sheffield's campaign was very interesting. http://www.paces-school.org.uk/ learning about Conductive Education was fascinating.