Member Info for devonplay

"When they start parcelling up the debt, you know it's bad!"
SEXIT - It's what the wise money is doing.
S(tanley Gibbons) Exit for Phoenix SG & Aurora =SEXIT!

"Castelnau IPO commences trading on the London Stock Exchange on 18th October."
Thanks for reminding us Pearls of SEXIT Day
S(tanley Gibbons) Exit for Phoenix SG & Aurora =SEXIT!
It sounds a bit like someone is getting screwed, I wonder who in, as you say, this incestuous tryst?
"SG’s changing position will be made clear from the Castelnau IPO."
Well we know one thing, it's not an equity stake in Castelnau, Companies have to make "Related Party Transaction" statements and there's no mention of this SGI stake in Aurora RNS or Castelnau IPO Pathfinder so we can put that bed for now. Kick that ball out of fantasy land.
SEXIT, as they de-leverage, you cheer from the Stadium. ;)
If I'd known Castelnau IPO was going to get you so over excited I wouldn't have mentioned it....SGI have remained very quiet on this issue.....Your an EXITeer and SGI are the Remainer, you are our own Nigel Farage LOL

LOL what a wheeze...take a rag-bag collection of under-performing of assets: undertaker, model trains and stamp collecting (out of politeness don't consider too long what they have in common besides Phoenix, don't even think about the Grim Reaper) and mix in a recently bought digital agency and then call it a lot more valuable than the sum of the parts. Offer it to the public as a way of reducing your own risk and bringing in some more lovely management fees, and in the guise of digital transformation, and ask them to hand over lovely cash ....then laugh all the way to the bank.
LOL it's genius.... for them.

Is that the one Auroro have unloaded their SGI holding into and Pheonix SG (who's main asset is SGI) have also unloaded their equity into and Phoenix have offered up as an IPO.....think about that for a moment....it's an exit by any other name. ;)
Everyone seems keen to reduce their exposure to SGI, bundle it up, with other assets, and sell it to the public!
Now I've thought about it, I've gone off the idea of even Castelnau's IPO at a discount.
As you say, incestuous. It's like a ball of twin that's not done it's job, so now it's time to shift it along to the public. I bet they hope that some dumb money doesn't think about all those cross holdings in much detail.
I thought you were the "SG publicity machine" haahahahaha but we can never say you haven't started ramping, you've ramping it up for a couple of years now LOL

"Nevertheless Devon, there's one thing that is clearly emerging here: SG will be getting a minority holding for free in either Castlenau or the new digital platform - Rawnet .....potentially, how many times!
"Given that SG will be responsible for everything to do with the 1c stamp," alas that's not true, you only have to look at the terms of the deal.
'Without doubt the whole thing is very incestuous, but this seems a novel way of boosting the market cap of SG without taking more conventional steps instead." incestuous indeed, by "without taking more conventional steps" do you mean like making a profit?
"Phoenix previously owned 100% of Rawnet, now they are giving away part of Rawnet for free to SG. ' Did I miss an RNS, because I haven't seen one saying that? It's the opposite, they've given away an interest in Pheonix SG & Aurora holding to Castlenau... there's only been the mention of a possible interest.
That's a good point Devon, Nevertheless Devon....how many time have hear you say that, only to find a few months later you're suggesting a criminal Board has stolen your money LOL
So incestuous that Auroro and Pheonix SG had unloaded their equity into another vehicle and Phoenix has offered it up as an IPO.....think about that for a moment....it's an exit by any other name. ;)

"Nevertheless Devon, there's one thing that is clearly emerging here: SG will be getting a minority holding for free in either Castlenau or the new digital platform - Rawnet .....potentially, how many times!
"Given that SG will be responsible for everything to do with the 1c stamp," alas that's not true, you only have to look at the terms of the deal.
'Without doubt the whole thing is very incestuous, but this seems a novel way of boosting the market cap of SG without taking more conventional steps instead." incestuous indeed, by "without taking more conventional steps" do you mean like making a profit?
"Phoenix previously owned 100% of Rawnet, now they are giving away part of Rawnet for free to SG. ' Did I miss an RNS, because I haven't seen one saying that? It's the opposite, they've given away an interest in Pheonix SG & Aurora holding to Castlenau... there's only been the mention of a possible interest.
That's a good point Devon, Nevertheless Devon....how many time have hear you say that, only to find a few months later you're suggesting a criminal Board has stolen your money LOL
So incestuous that Auroro and Pheonix SG had unloaded their equity into another vehicle and Phoenix has offered it up as an IPO.....think about that for a moment....it's an exit by any other name. ;)

"Nevertheless a minority holding is clearly stated in that RNS so it is a bit confusing"
"has the potential to provide the Group with a minority shareholding " it's not actually a minority shareholder, but the potential of one. Castelnau Group Ltd or in a "the new digital platform"....they may be different.
If it was Castelnau Group Ltd, then it would hold shares in it's largest shareholder. If I ever needed convincing that SGI was a mess this would do it. It's too high a risk for anyone than a punter or speculator. How can you possibly ever try to analyse it unless you are an insider?

If that turns out to be anything more than "potential", it's a heady mix of cross holding, all with Phoenix sitting at the middle.
Like over complex cap tables, related party transaction, should make anyone but the most sophisticated investors think twice.

You mean this:
"The Group is also considering partnering with Castelnau Group Ltd (Castelnau), a company controlled by Phoenix Asset Management Partners, as Castelnau seek to develop a new digital platform on which to buy, sell and most importantly, enjoy collectible assets. The proposed partnership with Castelnau has the potential to provide the Group with a minority shareholding in the new digital platform at zero cost as well as cost free access to the platform itself. "
Even SGI main asset "The World's Most Valuable Stamp".. really belongs to Phoenix, in the nature of all "interest free loans"
-Interest free with 50% of any profit made on the sale of the item due to PSG.
-Secured solely against the item with no further recourse to any group companies.
-An initial 5-year term, which can be extended by agreement between the parties.
-If the item is unsold at maturity, the loan can be settled through return of the item to PSG.
-If the item is sold for less than the outstanding value of the loan, the net proceeds of the sale will be deemed to be sufficient consideration to satisfy the loan obligation in full.
-Sale of the item requires PSG approval.
A partnership, even a junior one, isn't a shareholding.
"Any future agreement with Castelnau could constitute a related party transaction under the AIM rules and further updates will be provided in due course. "....LOL
Castelnau get 80%
PSG get 50%
SGI's ordinary shareholders what do they get? I bet they paid a lot more for the 100% of Rawnet than they did for SGI.

Castelnau currently holds investments in two unlisted companies, Rawnet and Ocula Technologies, with existing clients of the Investment Manager committing to transfer holdings in four underlying investee portfolio companies (Dignity Plc, Hornby Plc, Phoenix S.G. Limited (the principal asset of which is a 58.1 per cent holding in Stanley Gibbons Group plc), and WLS International Ltd) on Initial Admission (the "Target Assets"), in exchange for the issue of the Consideration Shares.

"Devon, this is confusing. According to recent RNS's, SG will be a minority holder of Castelnau. Yet you are saying Castelnau will own 31% of SGI? They can't both be correct statements?"
Have you bothered to look at the Notification?
"Phoenix SG Limited Private company but main asset is AIM quoted 31% (% of Co. held) Phoenix SG Limited is a private holding company, the principal asset of which is an approximately 58.1 per cent. holding in The Stanley Gibbons Group plc ("Stanley Gibbons").
Can you tell us where you think it said SGI will be a shareholder in Castelnau.? I've word searched the last 4 and Castelnau., as far as I can tell, doesn't appear.
Aurora appear to have injected their SGI shareholding into Castelnau. Are you confusing that SGI will get 20% of anything that's generated with their assistance.

I agree, even with the new capital coming in you've got a highly complex mix.
Phoenix owning the debt.
Aurora managed by Phoenix in the equity - I think they'll still be there.
Castelnau managed by Phoenix, with Aurora a shareholder in it, in the equity.
Rawnet, 100% owned by Castelnau, a key player in SGI future (with 80/20 returns).
For me, I'd be concerned any "profits" would be fed back into interest on the debt for Phoenix, eaten up by charges from Rawnet and 80% absorbed by Castelnau. There's been some buyers today, lets see if any of them are institutional, but I think I'd prefer to be on Castelnau IPO over SGI's equity. I may have a look if it doesn't get away easily or looks discounted to get it away. A premium, I'd need convincing. Overall, the above structure calls for a discount on fair value for SGI's common stock.

HBR today proving the old adage: buy on the rumour, sell on the fact.

It looks like Castelnau Group will own 31% of SGI post IPO.

https://www.investegate.co.uk/castelnau-group-ltd--cgl-/prn/initial-public-offering-and-publication-of-prospectus/20210923140741PDDEA/
the new holders of Aurora's slug of SGI...Initial Public Offering and Publication of Prospectus

Added some more of the Sterling Bonds, @ par, happy to put some income in that direction.

Hang on, you were the one telling us last week "The problem is that the company is now controlled again by its debt "
You sure you aren't the one confused.
Their supportive shareholder? Surely you don't mean Aurora, or are you turning a blind eye to the fact that they are planning to shuffle off their holding into another vehicles. if people didn't understand the finance, as you said the was an issue at a previous AGM, it's just about to get even more complex, debt, equity and supplier... it's all just Phoenix, but on a 80/20 basis.

Still have a target price of 1.8-2.2p Just taking longer than I thought.

Did the, as you were hoping, wipe the debt out today?

as you said "The problem is that the company is now controlled again by its debt " "THE PROBLEM".
problem debt, intra-group supplies and 80/20....could it get any worse.