Member Info for D-Geeman

Dontgive, if I had followed wyn's negativity on Avacta at £1.80 and sold rather than keep, I could have got out with a profit before the sp went to 40p. It's recovered to £1.20 ish, which is remarkable, as they have another string to their bow. It could still be my saviour even if I lose all on eve.

Eve doesn't have another string. It's useful to listen to all views. I'm not selling eve yet (I missed my chance when Wyn made previous warnings which I debated against) and hope for some kind of saviour and there are some logical arguments why one might appear. But just feeling positive on this BB won't help us at all I'm afraid.

'Blow the doors off' is a line often quoted on LSE BBs but the part of the Italian Job I feel we are in is the end, when hanging on the cliff edge, teetering.

It's such a shame. We were so nearly home and dry then Putin screws it all up. We are still infinitely better off than the Ukrainians, so it's all relative.

That struck me too jackbal, but I'm doing ok at night on my eve Original and eve memory pillow.

It's the daytime I struggle with, trying to work and follow this BB!

'and the fact they worded the RNS as they did suggests no one was interested ' they had to say that though didn't they, to highlight that nothing was certain. We've always said that cutting the office and staff out and have the work doe by a parent company would make eve profitable. Unless we are all wrong on that now then surely some hard nosed business person – or two – will want to take eve on board. It is a company with good products and the sleep away is quite unusual and satisfies an apparent need.

I think most people buying the shares now are gambling that there'll at least be a spike to get out on, with a profit.

Aim, tb fair to wyn he has been 'right' a lot more than wrong, on this board and others. No always right, but often. It's also good to be aware of the worst scenario here rather than read it at 7.05am in an RNS.

Fingers crossed people are slugging it out for eve now and we know nothing about it. The RNS did try to 'reassure' that they would go for the best deal for shareholders (– though talk is cheap).

Actually dontgive, they do mention cash running low:
'These headwinds are slowing eve’s progress toward its strategic and financial goals. Based on the first five months of trading, and its expectation that the cost of living crisis is set to continue for some time, the Board does not now expect to meet its previous revenue expectations for the current year, with additional promotional activity also having an impact on gross margins. This will have a consequential impact on the Company's anticipated cash balances as the year progresses. '

All the coverage of the Monday RNS and eve putting itself up for sale has the headline 'Nightmare' then follows it with variations of 'eve sleep puts itself up for sale' after £56m loss. 'Nightmare' wasn't in the RNS but that's the inference the hacks drew. I think there's not much positive in the RNS but there is still a chance of someone seeing value and wanting it in their group after taking out some / lots of overheads. Would an investor be able to turn a profit as quickly as a takeover and stripping out the costs? Seems unlikely – good money after bad – which is probably why it didn't work out with the US investor.

I recall NXT speakers wyn. They were amazing at a first look; very convenient on the face of it, but sadly the sound lacked 'something' and wasn't as deep and rich as conventional speakers. They actually felt flimsy which was good if you had to hold them up on the wall with small fixtures but not impressive as a statement. They were given quite a lot of publicity in What HiFi. Did it turn out badly for them? Probably no need to answer..

They wouldn't have won awards for their sound quality, I don't think. Eve HAS won awards so hopefully that'll prove to be an important difference.

The listing would, I think, only be of interest to a private company wishing to RTO to become public itself; so maybe Simba. Not much use to someone already a PLC or a private company wishing to remain private. It seems that staying a PLC has costs. At least they are keeping everything secret so we don't get the shares suspended and we are completely stuck (like last time).

As for the US talks it rather was made to sound as though the US party wart to eve but then eve decided being taken over was a good idea and it hadn't really crossed their mind till then.

A US investor would have trouble trading here AND making the cost savings necessary unless they also have staff here already. Not as if someone in the US could close the Kentish Town office, get rid of the staff and BOD and still keep Eve customers happy – unless they have a night shift in the US. It makes much more sense for a UK or European buyer to step in.

I would take some issue with two points on the list but the rest are sound to me. Certainly the customer info database must be helpful, though, having bought 2 pillow and a mattress I have not heard back from eve after they requested TP reviews.

The jobs are still open. Doesn't mean they will hire of course https://app.beapplied.com/org/1264/eve-sleep

It's fair to say I am 'expecting the worst' (told Mrs Geeman I could lose all my eve investment..) 'but hoping for the best'.

It could turn around any second with an RNS to say someone wants to buy eve but they have to compare against an alternative that just came in too, offering investment.

Wyn, I did look in at Angle to see, if I manage to get some out of eve on a spike, if that might be a good place to recoup losses in the long term with FDA approval etc. I now see confidence has even gone there. This investing lark is all turning out quite badly!

I think they are in a steep dive to the deck at the moment Dontgive.

The 'needing investment to maximise the opportunity of sleep wellness brand' is a bit of a 'for the comfort of passengers, is there anyone on board with experience of piloting a plane?' announcement during the dive.

* This last bit isn't true. Coming out of Administration would make no difference to putting future losses against group profits. That's obvious.

*'Also, any losses going forward in the short term, God forbid, could be set against profit of the wider group. Again, not true if bought from Administration.

I understand this now 'tax losses could be utilised by eve and would shelter future profits up to £69m' is rather the same as what we are used to in our 'fund and share' accounts, or our businesses if self employed, in that we can carry forward a loss from previous years to set against this year's profit. But the attractive part to a new owner would be that eve could make a profit without any corporation tax being due for quite some time, based on the Woodford money having gone down the pan previously. So if new owner expects to make a profit (by stripping out the office and the staff immediately) that would be quite handy.

And this advantage would be lost if eve were bought out of administration?

Also, any losses going forward in the short term, God forbid, could be set against profit of the wider group. Again, not true if bought from Administration.

Well, according to an accountant at *** Records...

'Hi D-Geeman,

I think it depends on a number of factors so not a clear and simple answer unfortunately! Sounds interesting I will try and catch you at the gate.

All the best,
**'

(I'd better do the school run today..)

(My outgoing message was:

Can I ask a cheeky question.. I know you’re busy so one word would be fine :)

If I big and profitable company (with some debt) takes over a small loss making company (made losses of > £60m over several years but no debt) and still some cash in the bank, does the big company get to set the losses against its own corporation tax profits?

And if the answer is more compaction than ‘yes' or ‘no', don’t worry!!

All the best, D-Geeman)

I was just wondering, why wouldn't lots of 'going bust' companies not be bought out as a tax loss, all the time. But most companies fold with lots of debt. If you had to take on the debt to get the tax loss it wouldn't be worth it. Eve is rather unusual in that it's in trouble but has no debt. Maybe that's why CC is going now.

All just speculation of course.

CFAN, do you think eve will realise this? If there's any doubt might it be worth mentioning it to Mark at M7 so eve could highlight in their prospectus? Will it be obvious to the finance people at eve? It seems a huge potential selling point and not yet being reflected though I did think the SP rose after your post :)

Thanks Yanis, so DFS are in debt:
' DFS expects to close the year with a net bank debt position of less than £100m'
So perhaps less likely to splash out now when sales are dipping.

So ending the war and returning confidence is the best bet. (Out of the box thinking but maybe eve use their last £1m to hire Edward Fox)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_of_the_Jackal_(film)

Yanis; 24 Mar 2022 — Cheryl Calverley, CEO of eve Sleep, commented: "Delivering a third year of ... the net cash position to £4.5m at 31 December 2021 (31 December 2020: £8.4m).

Dontgive; 'American deal offer had been the BOD rejected': I rather assumed it had been withdrawn by the other side, maybe because it was unacceptable to eve but maybe the USA side just couldn't see it working. Whatever the (unacceptable) 2019 Simba deal was I bet they wouldn't get such a good offer now.

'staff cuts may be a necessity': If I worked at Eve now I'd be looking at job adverts. There could be a few resignations in the pipeline so let's hope they are not the key people.