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' Ironically the low share price is lowering the cost of buying back debt.'
Also, not mentioned much on the BB, the market value of debt (or its net present value) must be dropping as interest rates rise and with inflation. Isnt that whats happening in the Bond market?
Isnt it more accurate to use c€30Bn debt net present value if you were to pay it all off early?
theluckyguy, for anyone who's owns these shares at a higher price it's pretty obvious this is not good as they will have lost more of their capital than they have received in dividends, this is always the danger with investing in individual shares
as the saying goes it's not how much you can afford to invest it's how much you can afford to lose, unfortunately it's not a very nice experience when it happens, and most of us will end up in this situation at some time or other
everyone has their own opinion, but i don't think anyone knows if this is the bottom or not, the possibility of a dividend cut could be a game changer, but there will always be winners and losers, anyone who gets in here at the bottom will most likely make a good profit when things get better, and good luck to them that's what we all try to do
unfortunately though you do get a minority of posters who just want to mock others losses, a bit sad really
best of luck all
Capt Morgan likes to make buyers who want to enter at a lower price and shorters who want to close out at mega profit both very happy
Have a research for yourselves both "negative catalyst" announcements this year
soon this company will have twice as much dept as its nav
Ex EE Boss Swanee, and O2 boss Dunne frontrunners for CEO post.
Ex UK boss Jeffrey being mentioned.
An internal promotion would be a disaster. Think any of the first two chosen, and SP should rise.
"Every day after market close they release RNS about buying own shares! But what's the use if its not helping share price?"
Every cloud has a silver lining; In this particular case Vodafone are buying back stock, at rock bottom prices, preventing dilution due to the MCB's. Ironically the low share price is lowering the cost of buying back debt.
Every day after market close they release RNS about buying own shares! But what's the use if its not helping share price?
Looks like Goldman Sachs selling shares rather than buying back!
Might be the Stroud branch.
"A drowning man will clutch at anything"
Nothing wrong with being underwater, as long as you've got enough air to last as long as you'll need it.
nothing wrong with being a trolley boy, much better than being a gutter boy ?
I think he works at Sainsburys gathering the trolleys together although not sure which branch. Yesterday he didn't type anything for some reason.
With Vodafone bouncing about 1p off the bottom he will be pleased tonight.
A drowning man will clutch at anything
"VOD's goodwill however, who really knows what it contains. As a shareholder you can ring VOD IR and ask them, but I doubt they will tell you. "
The reasoning behind Goodwill is all laid out in the Annual reports; You don't need to ring the company, just read the annual reports.
"Accounting policies
Identifiable intangible assets are recognised when the Group controls the asset, it is probable that future economic benefits attributed to the asset will flow to the Group and the cost of the asset can be reliably measured. Identifiable intangible assets are recognised at fair value when the Group completes a business combination. The determination of the fair values of the separately identified intangibles, is based, to a considerable extent, on management’s judgement.
Goodwill
Goodwill arising on the acquisition of an entity represents the excess of the cost of acquisition over the Group’s interest in the net fair value of the identifiable assets, liabilities and contingent liabilities of the entity recognised at the date of acquisition.
Goodwill is initially recognised as an asset at cost and is subsequently measured at cost less any accumulated impairment losses. Goodwill is not subject to amortisation but is tested for impairment annually or whenever there is evidence that it may be impaired. Goodwill is denominated in the currency of the acquired entity and revalued to the closing exchange rate at each reporting period date. Negative goodwill arising on an acquisition is recognised directly in the income statement.
On disposal of a subsidiary or a joint arrangement, the attributable amount of goodwill is included in the determination of the profit or loss recognised in the income statement on disposal. Finite lived intangible assets Intangible assets with finite lives are stated at acquisition or development cost, less accumulated amortisation. The amortisation period and method is reviewed at least annually. Changes in the expected useful life or the expected pattern of consumption of future economic benefits embodied in the asset are accounted for by changing the amortisation period or method, as appropriate, and are treated as changes in accounting estimates.
Licence and spectrum fees
Amortisation periods for licence and spectrum fees are determined primarily by reference to the unexpired licence period, the conditions for licence renewal and whether licences are dependent on specific technologies.
Amortisation is charged to the income statement on a straightline basis over the estimated useful livesfrom the commencement of related network services.
The canvas of the mona lisa is a thing and has a value, as with the frame. The goodwill is how much extra you will pay for the painting. The purchase price minus the canvas and the frame.
That goodwill you can see has a value. A good chance to resell the painting and get it back. VOD's goodwill however, who really knows what it contains. As a shareholder you can ring VOD IR and ask them, but I doubt they will tell you. You can only guess it has some resale value, or is it all vapour linked to past purchases gone bad. Have they written everything off from India yet? will the new CEO kitchen sink with a goodwill write-down?
It is safer to do your calculations excluding goodwill, and intangibles, that you have no idea if they even exist.
https://www.telcotitans.com/telefonicawatch/spain-to-extend-telefonica-shield-as-macro-headwinds-build/5905.article
"The Spanish government is reportedly set to extend the strategic shield intended to protect critical infrastructure companies from foreign takeovers for a further year, potentially keeping it in place until the end of 2023. The move would continue to make any hostile attempt to acquire Telefónica unlikely to succeed as the Group considers its strategy for the coming three years."
The market is making predatory moves against the Telecom sector, it's pretty clear Telecom stocks are undervalued and potentially easy targets.
So have I. I would expect a divi cut with the new ceo (don't they all?), but there's plenty of value here.
DenFos
it is amusing that you feel some folks should sell now, whilst others should buy and cash in ..... hilarious
Any reason why some holders shouldnt ...hold ...and take the "cashing in" rather than give it to those potential buyers ??
" Obvious now that buyers at 1.20 or more have no option than to capitulate and realise their losses "
dont be daft..... once the Option contracts close and then the other side of the table has to buy..... anyone on a loss needs to just sit back and wait....let them feed at the trough for now....others will get their turn at a later date
Obvious now that buyers at 1.20 or more have no option than to capitulate and realise their losses. New buyers can start investing now and cash in….same with BT.
No company share price reflect NBV today in the market, IMO. Further, accounting numbers are artificially manipulated.
"Strip out Goodwill and it's like saying the Mona Lisa is only worth the price of the frame and you may as well throw away the canvas. "
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lololol cracked me up and spot on mate.
"You can use either book value or net book value to base your investment decisions on - I was just explaining the different terms and how they are calculated :)"
Isn't the Net Asset value of €56.977 Billion with intangibles taken out anyway?
If you strip out Goodwill, then it doesn't reflect the value paid for the assets or the earnings potential of the assets. Strip out Goodwill and it's like saying the Mona Lisa is only worth the price of the frame and you may as well throw away the canvas. Valuing NAVPS at €0.13 is like shredding the earnings and only assigning value to the nuts and bolts, I wonder what Banksy would say about that lol.
You can use either book value or net book value to base your investment decisions on - I was just explaining the different terms and how they are calculated :)
"The results are complex and the accompanying statements are somewhat misleading, so it’s hardly a surprise there’s been a panic since they were released and Read was sacked. Tbh I would have sacked him just for presenting those results the way he did, never mind all the opportunities he failed to capitalise on this year."
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Which part is misleading? I stated the margins here on the collateral on the day of the release. The issue is that the market wants to hear what it wants to hear. Vod is no more leveraged than its peers. Happy to be proven wrong.
Read is an accountant and accountants typically don't make good CEO's and they are certainly no technical visionaries. Just look to Apple and Tim Cook. He is still thriving off the back of the great Jobs.
Sorry to say, but if an "investor" doesn't see value at these levels, then one is rather risk averse and there is nothing to explored here. Best to look into bonds.
By any fundamental measure, this company is a steal at the current price. IMO this will become quite obvious soon.
I have stated this multiple times in the past. UK is suffering from an extremely weak shareholder culture and the stocks are being punished for it. Both Orange and DT are partially owned by their respective governments and they will bring down vultures trying to spread rumours or to push weak hands out.
Had vod been an American company with similar fundamentals, it would have been trading at 2x the SP.