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I agree with you both regarding trades pay and lack of benefits.
I’m not a tradesman I am in project management.
Some materials are cheap and is completely false as the material fails/needs repairing at a greater cost - why not just use a decent product in the 1st place!?
Regarding kit houses - I believe the Canadians and north Europeans build a lot of these? These guys must be the experts perhaps we could do a lot of learning from them and how they do things.
Following on from that Ben, 4bed house at say £400k for a chippy is about £3k , no holiday pay or sick pay and then sit at home if its raining or the materials dont turn up or your next fix is nt ready , oh and dont forget to put some money away in a rip off private pension as your employer wont be contributing , yes why dont we have more youngsters joining the industry???
Hi spurs
I am glad we on the same wavelength, the thing which also gets to me , is when people say the tradesmen get paid too much!
I am not sure which trade you are in , but I am a bricklayer and it works out we get about £10k to build a £400k house, labour only!
That’s about 2.5%
Have you also found they are trying to use cheaper materials?
It seems to me they pay more attention on flower beds and walk ways than the product!
All in my view
And good luck all and speak freely because it’s our investment as well as there’s
Interesting comments regarding the kit houses.
Yes when it all goes wrong, then it is the builders fault. The clowns we have making laws do not have a clue, irrespective whom is in power.
I totally agree mate. I prefer traditional method and would much rather buy one than a kit form. The sad truth is we’re just not going to get the numbers in this way. Depends what is seen as the overarching priority. It’s a shame, what young people want to get into construction these days. Work your *******s off have a bad back/elbow/shoulder etc and struggle when you get to your 40s.
Didn’t take it as you having a go, think we’re saying the same thing! Annoys me when the outsiders say build more, quicker, better, cheaper but then don’t suggest the actual methods to do it
That’s not me having a go at you or anyone on this board, it’s just every day you hear these idiots coming out with the same BS it does your head in !
Rant over all good now:))))
Hi spurs
I can not understand this mentality of the peoples and ministers who keep on talking about building houses cheaper and quicker ie(prefabs,kit house form, etc etc)
Houses are going to be the biggest and most important buy in the person’s lifetime and they talk about a prefab house!
Really!
If I was spending £200k+ and found it, it was thrown up in a week I wouldn’t be happy.
The houses being built traditional style are going to be there for hundreds of years with a bit of tlc.
So unfortunately they will have to wait and maybe some of the younger people might start coming in and that is where the problem lies!
Anyway have a great weekend of to cricket in a bit.
Good luck all and happy trading
WiganWarriors
Why do you think building more social homes is the answer to creating a prosperous building sector?? They pay a massive discount to us builders as is part of the land deal pre construction. I don’t understand your logic of build more at a smaller profit margin? Maybe I’ve missed something.
IMO the land available isn’t the problem, I have never heard any builder / person within construction quote this being a reason why we don’t produce the national target numbers. The simple truth is lack of labour lack of material and I believe the traditional construction method is not the way forward to get the numbers, although I prefer the method it does not help with speed and volume
Hi All
First of all still 100mph out there and everything seems to be selling, footing’s going in , so dos’nt look like it is slowing at the moment!
Anyway to join in the conversation on housing shortage, as we all know the main cost for the housing is land and the more housing and bigger population we get, the land value will only go one way.
I said ages ago I wonder if we will start building three family homes, over three floors, just like Germany!
The more I hear what’s going on the more I believe this will happen, eventually it will be the only way people can afford a house.
I might be wrong and usually am :))
All the best Ben
My thoughts - property is mostly owned by people over 40, many of who vote tory, especially those at retirement age. Property owners are biased and want to see rising property prices (and it's too complicated for many people to realise that it's to the detriment of their children).
On the other hand first time buyers want to see lower property prices. However, those are mostly young and they don't vote at all or tend to vote Labor.
So basically the current government has no interest in fixing the broken housing market, as this would bring down house prices and negatively impact their voters. So I don't expect any changes before the next GE in 2024. After that we might get a Labor government especially, if party animal Boris is still in power. But even then I don't think Labor can fix the problem - after all they were in power quite a few years and did nothing about it.
The reason is IMO that the problem is hard to fix - it's cultural, political and economic. Us Brits are obsessed with houses, building more would require changes to planning permissions and either building out and/or building up. Again culturally we like houses with gardens not blocks of flats like in Paris and also the Green Belt is a bit of a holy cow. So I don't see how this can change.
And finally, the economic bit - there's been a lot of money printing that has inflated asset prices including housing. Interest rates are rising now so this problem might disappear but it also might persist. Either way not something that the government can easily change, as the national debt is huge and raising rates to normal levels will bankrupt the country.
FWW, until we get back to a having a decent stock of social housing the country and more specifically the building sector won’t prosper. Selling off the country’s assets without replacing them, just to curry favour with voters is a crime.
The best way forward is to incentivise large long term infrastructure investors to build both buy to let, and long term social housing. Give them tax incentives to do this and UK GOV should keep out of it.
A peaceful society serves all well, those less inclined to chase the almighty dollar can live a peaceful and dignified life, and those wealth creators who want to strive for the top tier can also prosper. Until politicians learn that society is a mixed bag, and all have to have a sense of satisfaction with their lot, then we risk constant turmoil. Northern Europeans are much closer to this model.
Of course, IMHO. Sermon over ??
After the second world war council housing was allocated on a points system in some areas ,those with 2 children would get a smaller house than those with 4.As the children left home only their parents would be left living in the property.Two people living in a 4 bedroomed house.Then the powers that be let the occupants buy the properties at discount to the true value .So we still have 2 people living in 4 bedroom houses .
Dont want to be party political but not sure if Boris's chat about selling property to people on benefits will help TW at all ?.Thatcher sold all the nations silver with Council houses and utilities etc back in the 80's feel boris is desperate to sell something to win an election but there is nothing left to asset strip ?.If TW can win big contracts to build affordable housing etc thats good news but we hear year after year we need more houses and then Builders get clobbered by Gove on a Woki witch hunt over Grenfill towers u cant make it up.. If Politicians stayed out of business I think the world and this country would run a lot better and TW SP would be well over 200 by now.? Heres hoping for some common sense joined up decison making in the next few years over housing.
Rightmove is predominately a second hand portal, new house prices are actually rising. The shortage of second hand houses are actually supporting the new build sector as people decide to go for certainty rather than fight it out over second hand stock. Hard to see the new build sector prices or build rate falling, possibly steady yet still covering inflationary input to maintain margin and profit levels.
Of course, UK Gov and the media will continue to bash the new build developers because they think it will buy votes and attract eyeballs, however, in practice sales of new build will still be strong.
Problem is that the market is affected by external sentiment and we know it’s the market that sets the share price. However, at some point the market will rerate (perhaps when we get rid of Boris and replace him with someone less selfish, and who is capable of stimulating the economy for the benefit of all). Until then sit back and take the solid dividends and likely substantial capital gains in a couple of years. Patience is the key to successful investing.
BTW, haven’t heard anything from Elliott since their initial communication last December. Given the fall in the GBP vs USD and the share price fall maybe, just maybe they will be able to orchestrate a bid. However, at these prices they are unlikely to offer more than 50% premium, so might lose Wimps for less than £2. Given a two year view that would be tantamount to theft.
R tw. Still paying a uvi
Not the biggest issue all of a sudden with mortgage lending down significantly.
I'd argue that buyback make sense when the shares are cheap, below the fair value of the company. The way Warren Buffett does them. In this way they are more tax efficient way to return money to shareholders. Otherwise profits are taxed twice.
The problem however, is that most CEOs buyback shares when things are good, when the have extra cash, i.e. at the top and thus share prices are expensive. When they do that they destroy shareholder value. Instead they should be saving some cash for rainy days, paying down debt, etc. and then when the proverbial hits the fan, as it inevitable does, they can use their rainy day fund to buy back stock on the cheap.
So, IMO nothing wrong with the practice but the problem is with the way people use it, except for Buffett and few others.
The only thing I will say is that since I diversified into BDEV and PSN it's usually TW. that comes out on top daily. I guess it's a low-risk strategy in an era of stagflation, conflict, political cluelessness etc. etc. Clutching at straws really, no fan of buybacks.
With a bit of luck, Countryside Properties will turn down In-Cap's approach and they'll bid for Wimps instead, finally putting this share out of its misery.
Buy buying back and cancelling shares there are less shares and therefore your share is a higher proportion of the company
So if TW decided to give its shareholders an amount of money back as a dividend, as less shares, each share receives a greater amount.
Its disappointing not held up the share price, but I guess that's as many shares, world economy, wars, covid etc
Long term hope for better, I'm well under what paid currently
PS special dividend, in humble done help the price, better just 2 decent dividends when can and keep something back so we don't get another 2008 issues with cash.
I agree buy backs are just smoke and mirrors and just legalised theft. .They are just to keep HMG happy along with the media so us alleged multi millionaires are not seen to get any income from hard pressed working people. We used to get a nice welcome special Divi announced over the summer months which was the main reason people bought this share .And dont forget TW kept our divi money on HMG orders during covid . so is the new CEO going to do the right thing and give our money back do we think ? Don't hold your breath, its all legalised theft , CEO's all over the FTSE dont really care as their incomes dont suffer, a lot have a knighthoods etc at stake .
Well you'd hope so wouldn't you Richie? But the buyback started on 4th March when the SP was 133 & today it's c. 131. So I'm not feeling the love I'm afraid. Give me a special divi any day - please!
Surely there has to be something in share buy backs.
I remember Carnivasl announcing it and the share price has fell further from 1400 pence to 980 pence.
The dividend floor keeps the price high.
7 percent risk on.
Hi Krusty, my answer to your question on share buybacks is no, definitely not. I cannot even remember the last share I owned where share buybacks was worthwhile for myself or indeed any investor. Up the dividend of pay a special dividend, at least that way us long suffering investors get something tangible rather than the jam tomorrow of share buybacks.