London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Most people here (except few bogus accounts) are well intentioned shareholders. There’s a lot of comment about how the company cannot raise money, no one will fund them, etc.
I really want to know how many of us have raised capital for a public market company to be able to offer this opinion? Because if not, then it’s merely speculation. I mean the guy who’s raised >£20M so far, is saying he is working on getting in more. I know there’s a chance he might fail, but can we atleast not be demoralising?
It doesn’t help to call yourself a realist when you truly don’t understand the topic and have very limited experience with it
What I’m trying to find is the plans this new group have to raise funds? Without funding nothing else matters and a lot of this discussion is futile
They’ve shared nothing, so you won’t be able to find any plans for FT.
Their claim, “We have connections and we believe they’ll be happy to put in money once they see us seated at the table.”
And herein lies the issue. There is absolutely no doubting the fact that Tirupati was deemed an extremely exciting prospect upon listing and right up to mid 2023. Initial interest focused around the downstream and specialist graphene production but even as that failed to come to fruition the sheer numbers that Shishir was projecting this time last year were eye-watering. Here's the rns from just over one year ago, scroll to 'guidance of production'
https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/TGR/tg-commences-production-at-18000tpa-plant-q1nv3odeg52zfcg.html
Of course you're going to be able to raise funds when you are projecting big profit imminently, in the very nearing term. Back last year Shishir was projecting production of over 2000Tpm with cheap and swift plans to expand rapidly against a break even production level of 1100-1200Tpm, of course that was going to attract investment.
The question is has his ability to attract investment now faded away due to such a chasm between what was being touted and what actually came to pass? That 2000Tpm and beyond has ended up more like 400Tpm and probably falling due to lack of cash to actually operate... In just one year they've gone from a near term highly profitable miner to needing £1m just to pay their staff and cover a CLN coupon. That is mismanagement and why it doesn't matter what he claims at this point, the chances of delivering on those claims is low and largely out of his hands now.
The main thing the new group have going for them is that they don't come with a litany of false promises and amateurish delivery. It's that baggage that makes TGR uninvestable under current management.
100% HarChris. Couldn't agree more.
Failure to reach production targets was primarily due to working capital constraints as has been explained many times. The working capital shortfall stems from the lack of payment of VAT since early 2023 and interest rate rises generally making capital raising more difficult generally. These factors cannot be blamed on Shishir or is he expected to be party to the Madagascan governments budgetary constraints and future worldwide inflation trends. I believe what Shishir has achieve with the limited capital at his disposal is quite remarkable and he should be given the opportunity to remedy the situation. There is nothing the new group can offer which will improve the current situation in the short term in fact the whole takeover attempt is just diverting management time and adding to costs.
This isn’t the only company that has been over ambitious in its targets and who knows, if the VAT refunds hadn’t stopped around 16 months ago and the company had the £2.5Mil owed to them it could of been profitable by now.
Can that be blamed on management, no of course not but these things happen. You heard how impressed the ex NED and Broker were at the growth of the company and bar staying afloat, growth at this point is the most important thing.
HarChris you say near term profits were bringing investors in, take a look at GreenRoc who just secured funding from US EXIM Bank for up to £3.5Mil. Are they predicting near term profits? No is the answer. Please stop presenting your opinions as facts.
Saluc could it be Shishir is an unlucky man? Unable to raise funds, losing Auditors, Losing Brokers, the list goes on.
On the other hand the Action Group are making statements that funders will come in if and when they ( action group) get feet under the table. Those are just words which mean very little until Firm proposals are put on the table. Until then Shareholders are faced with a choice between the Devil and the Deep Blue sea. Not a good choice for any confirmed Investor.
20th Feb - 6100-6500T target announced for April-June, reiterated in early April - actual 2371T
8th August - 'expects to reach c.50% capacity utilisation in the current quarter and c.75% in Q3 FY24' also 'The Company remains focussed on reaching monthly production and sales minimum target of 2,000 tons and expects to achieve this important milestone in Q3 FY24 having focused this year on:'
Q2 actual 2130T
19th Oct, lesson learnt, new target for H2: 'In H2 FY 24, the Company estimates base case production of 7,500 tons though working towards reaching 10,000 tons, given the limitations of head grade. '
Actual... wait for it... 2600T
Of course none of this is the CEOs fault though, he isn't expected to correctly understand his company's capital position throughout the year and raise when he can just, no of course not, it's normal to instead just wait on tax rebates from one of the poorest countries in the world, it's normal to sit tight for that, it'll come, imminently. No none of it is his fault, all these missed targets are totally out of his control, the NEDs resigning all have an agenda, the broker has an agenda. Poor Shishir is doing absolutely everything right time and time again and luck just isn't on his side.
But it's okay, the lenders understand this so are going to give him the capital he's after. I mean, this was in the works on March 7th Corporate Update. And the company is down to virtually no money but of course it's coming, and on good terms to Shishir. They know he's been unlucky and has everyone unfairly against him. They want his company, they are using all these misfortunes and twisting them into some warped reality when really the company is absolutely thriving and has investors queuing up to get involved in the business. Money will come, debt at low interest rates, equity at significant premiums, it's all coming we just need to be a bit more patient.
... and breathe. Rant over, i'm too exasperated and flabbergasted by the frankly weird defence of a ceo that has absolutely tanked everyone's investment through sheer incompetence.
Must of got lucky with his other successful company’s then I guess. All startup companies run into issues, not the first company to miss targets and it won’t be the last.
Your mind is made up that is evident lol not sure why you’re getting so hot and bothered about a stock you’re not financially involved with.
I’ve worked with gamblers before, you sound like an armchair jockey when your horse gets beat. Just remember, when the fun stops, Stop.
The opposite in fact. Gamblers never accept losses, they bet til they are back in the green or wiped out. In terms of shares they double down until they are back to break even or their money goes to zero. They struggle to accept that it's anythng but bad luck that they are down.
I sold for a hefty loss and take full responsibility for it. It didn't help that I had constant correspondence with Shishir reassuring me that we were close to a turning point at every juncture but it was my money and my instincts that let me down for too long. I should have been out at the first or second red flag, not the ninth or tenth.
Good points
That’s in response to several posters.
I have voted against all the resolutions as while frustrated I don’t see the proposed directors possessing the mettle or know how to move the dial here unfortunately so have backed the horse I see with the most to genuinely lose and the most aligned to come out with something to build and able to build in such a niche space ie the current board. Suppose it’s all a risk now. Just don’t see anything to suggest the proposed group can or would do anything, even from their histories that gives me confidence in what happens here long term if they are successful.
HarChris going back to your emotion rant, where you blame missed targets and the Madagascan tax refund on Shishir personally. Surely you cannot blame market trends on Shishir also? I bet if you had an afternoon with Tomorrowyesterday you’d find a way!
The list below is 4 random Graphite mining companies at their all time high to todays price.
TGR. £1.45 - £0.05
Graphite 1. $4.60 - $0.93
Northern Graphite Corp. $2.74 - $0.13
Syrah. Aud$5.94 - $0.49
Focus graphite $15.50 - $0.14 then taken private.
Give the guy a break, understand this is a long term play, let the man cook he’s already built this isn’t something enviable.
Corporate governance must change, I’m sure he has no choice but to address this now. CFO imperative.
Funding is desperately needed, he hasn’t failed yet and I trust he won’t now.
‘The main thing the new group have going for them is that they don't come with a litany of false promises and amateurish delivery.’
My friend hasn’t assessed the history of the requisition group very closely. $27M written off, >£400k pocketed, shareholder money wiped and we’re on our way. Not sure how this isn’t amateurish delivery. And this is in a field where this guy has worked his entire life.
Basically overlook every flaw of the newcomers. And criticise everything about the current mgt.
We understand you’re out mate, but do thorough research on both sides if you’re to have a public opinion and want to truly help. Bashing up one side doesn’t help.
No one here disagrees that Shishir has screwed up. The extent of it we can argue. But we are not here to discuss this.
We are here to discuss team Shishir vs team Mark
And team Mark has no credible plan, no credible experience, a crooked past, underhanded questionable tactics to drive down share price, etc.
If you want to hand over the mgt to them, be my guest
You keep bringing it back to share price and saying how everyone focuses too much on the share price decline, I’m not. I’m saying that he consistently wildly missed targets again and again to a degree I’ve never seen before. We’re talking quarter after quarter after quarter for an entire year. We’re talking missed production targets of over 50% with half the quarter already passed!
I follow three of those four companies you just mentioned quite closely and for sure none of them have done well but the mismanagement at TGR is on another level , imo (as someone that can compare).
And I’m also confident that when graphite prices pick up they will be well placed to benefit whilst TGR is at threat of even existing by that point.
Sorry Akhtar I was responding to the specific point which I’ve seen raised time and time again arguing that Shishir has simply been unlucky / this could all be explained by lack of working capital and the situation was out of his hands. That’s just evidently nonsense.
I don’t think all that much of the TG representatives (well Isabel seems credible) but at least as a team they might make a fist of this.
If I may join you guys Akhtar & HarChris, basically you’re saying Shishir shouldn’t have given any guidance while a working capital shortage overshadowed him is what you’re saying I think so missed targets could have been avoided if production fell short as no such targets would have existed.
Sorry if I’ve missed this bit but if it wasn’t the working capital shortage, what was it that resulted in missed targets?
HarChris so you’re that upset about missed production target that you sell out? And the SP doesn’t bother you, right ok.
The other 3 graphite mining companies you follow, what was their YoY sale growth? Was it up 70%.. an impressive number from an incompetent CEO.
You have that much of a grudge against Shishir, Tomorrowyesterday hasn’t needed to post today lol
I won’t post on here again for a while, I think I’ve got my points across by now. Good luck, be interesting to see how this all plays out :)
This is a bit like choosing between Sunak and Starmer, which is worse, and vote for the opposite. What a decision!
Shishir has made certain promises, in particular a London based CFO. He has 14 days before my vote is cast, by when a CFO should be appointed.
By the time of the vote there will only be 3 weeks until the CON holders call time on TGR
*CLN but CON would also be appropriate
Keep deramping share price keeps rising )
Good summary. I’m expecting my investment here to be a total loss. I certainly wouldn’t invest more, even at 2p, until I see some serious changes in management, and communications that are rooted in reality.