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A friend of mine is an Administrator, dealing with property assets. They are obliged to get 'market value' so invariably use the auction route as it tests the market and has a high degree of certainty of a quickish sale. It will certainly test the assets figures in the accounts. Not sure what the company owns and what is rented. The Administrator can bring a lease to an end , if needs be.
FlyingHigher, I see where you're coming from but I don't think it quite works like that. Administrators have to value the assets and I don't think they can simply sell a company with an asset worth 1000 for 1 on the basis that the buyer assumes liabilities of 500. I think they would be obliged to sell the asset for 1000, settle the debts and shut down the enterprise. But to be honest I don't know that much about it.
In any case, LinkedIn suggests that most of the employees and directors have been made redundant. Which is very sad of course. So it seems that the administrators will try and sell the individual assets.
It feels grubby to be speculating about whether there's money to be made when people have lost their jobs so I may leave the posting for a while.
Maxi19 - In my view, the administration process has no obligation to shareholders. The shares are effectively worthless because the company has announced they cannot continue trading.
A buyer can come in and say to the administrators: "we'll cover your costs, staffing costs etc and take on these listed assets. We assume responsibility for these liabilities." Job done.
The administrators get their money, some staff and other stakeholders will be happy because the process will preserve their ties.
The purchase price is what is paid to the administrators and any other costs the buyer has to cover.
What wouldn't make sense to me is a buyer coming in and saying "we'll cover all of the above and also put in an offer of x pence to shareholders." Why would they do that?
The administrators have control of the company, they've been appointed by the board.
They have no regard for shareholder interests, so an offer to shareholders would be the equivalent of a Christmas gift.
It's not going to happen! Nobody chucks money away for the sake of it.
Saietta VNA for example is projected to have £42m EBITDA in FY 26/27. If you apply a modest 10x valuation then that would be a £420m valuation, so a £210m stake.
Obviously no-one is going to pay anything like that right now, but to think that the 49% is somehow worthless just doesn't make sense.
I agree Maxi19. The company still is valuable and in the popular electric sector. My gut feeling is a competitor or a JV partner is bound to be looking at this tasty morsel. I believe that an offer will be made that will see shareholders walking away with something. Certainly not 0.65p which is the suspension price. Its just got to be a takeover or a management buy out at this stage. There are still many reasons to be optimistic as there are many scenarios that can play out.
Fingers crossed that those affected can still salvage some money out of this. GLA LTH.
Neil, have you for one moment considered you might be wrong?
Have you even thought about how much the assets are worth and what they could be sold for?
I did try to warn you all..
Maybe listen next time someone experienced tells you not to buy
I know I'm going to get it in the neck here, but that's my honest view.
I got it wrong on the entry into administration, which I said was "unlikely" to occur yesterday. So I am very aware that my judgment can go awry.
However, I spent yesterday researching IP valuation and I can't see how the AFT IP can realistically be valued at less than £10m. I realize that if there's a fire sale then the administrators may have to accept whatever price is offered to them. However, there are plenty of sophisticated IP players, including patent troll companies that can calculate the revenue potential from the ConMet and Saietta VNA licenses and make an appropriate offer.
Then there's the Propel IP which was described as "highly valuable" in the latest accounts.
There's also the Saietta VNA 49% stake. Saietta VNA is basically expected to be profitable from the next financial year. Often JV agreements include a put option whereby one party can force the other party to buy their stake (typically with a 15-25% discount to the fair market value). So there could well be decent value there.
This isn't a typical administration where creditors are chasing the company and there's massive debt. The company's run out of cash and doesn't have enough time to sort things out. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't have very valuable assets that are worth more than the debts.
The lesson: Ignore any coverage from VOX Markets. Don't invest in AIM shares.
I did say it would go under and did my best to tell all to get out, Neil777 got a load of abuse when really he was trying to help anyone holding in here, I remember him saying he wouldn’t buy a single share no matter how cheap it was. Take note of the one’s who like talking but not listening, I’ve seen this many time’s over the year’s, don’t think you’ll get anything back as shareholders never do. It’s gone and the last you’ll see or hear of it.
Good luck in your next investments.
I see david woolley sharing posts of saietta employees looking for new employment on linkedin today. i suppose these people are looking for a new job for a good while
"investment strategy"
lol that's a good one :-))
It's not a scam, it's an investment strategy. If you can buy low liquidity shares, convince enough other people to buy after you, surge the share price and exit, you'll make money. The idea that you can do this long-term as Earl and others have tried to seems foolish to me. I'm sure they're boasting huge Yachts off the coast of the Caribbean that justifies their strategy. I never see much come from their hype though. It seems like they flee for break-even and small losses, leaving other to lick their wounds if they bought into the hype.
And …are you the aim police ?
This is Earl you know, he's a scammer, never holds anything more than 1 day perhaps 2 days in a miracle and posts amazing price targets in the hope of skimming a quick 5-10%
You are allowed to buy more than one !!!
Earl that's a different stock you were telling everybody to buy last week
RGhost is absolutely right - just Google the rights of shareholders. Naturally you could take this a set further and suggest that it was managed in to administration on purpose, it is not hard to imagine the reasons why......but of course I'm not say it was!!
" It's amazing how everyone has simply assumed that shareholders have lost everything here. "
Perhaps you shouldn't assume it's an assumption Maxi. It might save you some typing, if nothing else.
I did say it was awful for anyone to ramp this company, while it was dying......
anyways it is what it is.......
worth a look at BLOE..... s gift sp, market missing this... $1.6billion NPV to Block energy!
tiny Mcap...... Dyor before its too late
Is it serious that you guys expect to get any money out of this?
Did you actually read the numbers from the last year and can you really understand them?
Is no one wondering what exactly happened to Propel? Propel was the only branch through which there has been another big funding, first there were big turnovers by Propel and now it is deadly quiet around Propel. When NL and Sunderland are sold there is no nig assets left at all, the assets of NL and Sunderland were the largest. The debts to government, personnel and creditors are too big, also the there are the administration costs on top of that. If there really are actually 95 people still employed as Linkedlin makes believe, then it is quite a lot of salary costs for the next month. You as a shareholder are on the back foot.
If you look at VNA and ConMet, these are just promised turnovers. Look well there so far nothing at all in terms of revenue created. 2 years ago Propel would sell thousands of units in 2023/2024, where is the income of that? Please dont believe the RNS anymore. And if someone would want to buy Saietta, it would only be the good parts of it, not the junk and debt. Then the shareholders will get nothing at all.
Look at the cash-out in recent years, all the money went through very quickly and wonder if the management enjoyed it well.
As i had a premonition this could happen,some you win some you lose,i did lose on safestyle thou,
I agree Maxi although I think this move albeit not ideal has bought them time and space to actually reorganise themselves and within administration there’s still the ability to raise cash and accept offers. I’ve had a similar situation then an offer from out of the blue came in and off they went it went ballistic! It’s a good business and not masses of debt so all to play for. We could even see some sort of RTO here. IMHO DYOR
Theoretically correct, but extremely unlikely
It's amazing how everyone has simply assumed that shareholders have lost everything here.
Of course, going into admin is never a good thing and I was disappointed by this morning's RNS.
However, I bought in last week on the belief that there might be a takeover, and if not there would be a good chance of a return from the administration.
Firstly, it's still possible that there will be a share sale. Companies that go into administration can still be sold as a company. Saietta isn't insolvent yet so if the administrators receive a suitable offer they can accept it.
Second, the business and assets of all or part of the group can be sold.
Third, all lines of business can be discontinued (apart from the JV) and everyone made redundant, and a sale of the remaining assets takes place.
All three of those outcomes could return value to shareholders. It's impossible to know how much the IP is worth, but if a party offered £5m plus for it you are quite possibly looking at a return to shareholders. I'm definitely not saying that it's worth that amount, but I definitely wouldn't bet against it let's put it that way.
So I advise everyone to wait for the eventual outcome here as it's not a company saddled with debt and creditors and until we know how much its assets are really worth it's impossible to know how this will end.