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Yankee,
All you say is not unreasonable; but can you pls explain these 2 potential flaws that I see in your reasoning:
1. to enrich myself (NB and GB) personally, I need to have the cash to buy DVRG business; and even if I have this money (big IF), the assets will be sold at a price determined by the Administrator - what guarantees that some other party may not offer more? so, why destroy my personal wealth?
2. if the plan was for MSYS to buy DVRG business, them two own only 9% of the company; so again, they have destroyed a huge chunk of their wealth to buy something for MSYS? But MSYS has no money for such an endeavour. IMO
LTbeliever , I know its hard to try and think like a fraudster if you are not one, as we are all just trying to look after our investments after all.
Allow me to explain a theory that looks to be playing out before our eyes.
If I own 10% of DVRG for example and for ease of numbers, DVRG is worth 1 million ,and I needed to do an ill timed raise and I know the game is up and I have been gaming the system through a bull market and low interests rates like Nigel Burton and Gerard Brandon and things are falling apart and lets say it falls by 90% so I now own 1% and not 10% of say a 100,000 pound company or 150,000 pound company, not a 1 million pound company. What do I do, ive lost right, well in the short term only!!
Next, I leave it drift into administration as I cannot possibly get back my 10% of 1 million equally 100,000 as its not worth that anymore and we are in a high interest rate environment and bear market!! So when it goes into administration I use my second company that I am on the board of (remember this is the trick here, Gerard Brandon and Nigel Burton run both companies together) to buy this now de-listed and bankrupt company for a dime!! So now I own 100% of that 100,000 pound company and I have made my loss back and whole again!!
Now just to put the icing on the cake, lets say I know DVRG's run has come to an end, well just to really extract value that I have lost in the short term, I setup a contract worth 1.4million with myself, after all Nigel Burton did that deal with himself right and that value has to go to MSYS which is where I have alot of shares. Remember I only own 1% and im diluted on DVRG so its time to top of MSYS and bring value over there.
Now it seems elaborate but that is self enrichment albeit they are likely breaking even as they are so incompetent and burning the PI's in the process.
So for this to come through, we will see some solid good financials on MSYS this week, they planned for this, ill informed PI's again will be taken for a ride and jump in. Then Gerard Brandon and Nigel Burton will put in offers for Labskin and Modern Water or Glanaco or some combination that makes sense to them. And the deception and false RNS feed starts up again like nothing happened. Over my 42 years of investing this is not actually uncommon.
Yankee:
In that case, you can sell half of your holding to protect your profit and let the rest for a free run :) Risk management and ZERO emotions (so hard in reality…) is everything here.
I’ve learned not to be spiked and to remain profitable during my 12 years of investing. Buying at the VERY early stage of a company and NEVER during the fast rise in the SP. Doesn’t matter how it looks attractive. Yes, you’ll lose some opportunities, but you’ll never get spiked in that case.
Don’t forget to top slice later. A VERY early entry and top slicing helped me to end up profitable with DVRG (which I sold out in October). Of course, most of my profit evaporated… Still profit is not a loss :)
By the way, I am a LONG TERM investor and I make just 3-5 trades a year.
I agree with most of your points Yankee, except the enrichment part; how can they enrich themselves if their personal wealth is already down (from their stakes in both companies) by hundreds of thousands of Pounds?
DVRG was worth 60mln at one point and MSYS 12mln - Nigel has a 5+% stake and GB over 3%, plus options. I call it ineptitude (as a minimum).
I think its very very likely MSYS come out with good results and financials in 2/3 days as they have been preparing for this and trying to manage the DVRG situation as after all both boards are one and the same, however this is indeed the red flag.
Remember that they allowed DVRG drift into administration, they created a 1.4million deal with DVRG as Nigel Burton is the CEO of DVRG and a board member of MSYS. Gerard Brandon was the CEO of DVRG and now the CEO of MSYS. They are simply creating this opportunity to buy back parts of DVRG as an opportunity. So I would fully expect them to hit the market with good financials end of the week. However as we have all learned this is what they do, they game the system to enrich themselves unfortunately and maybe there are those willing to be fooled again by Gerard Brandon and Nigel Burton however be warned.
The short term reward will quickly vanish just like it did for DVRG and all the lies in the RNS. Plenty of other opportunities out there without the lies and deception and all one can say is stay well away.
Good point MInded.
High Reward-High Risk; most PIs here have been burned (more than once!) but someone, starting from a zero base, can afford to take a small punt.
The Co saves money for its clients, providing a hard-to-get service (micro-engineering); it has potential financing issues (and possible dilution) and a crooked CEO and not-so-diligent NED (who is already down by over 300k).
So, as Newuncle said, Caveat Emptor.
Volvie:
I decided to give this company a chance and I personally hold 1 per cent of my portfolio here. I can afford losing that tiny amount in the case of failure.
It is VERY risky. However, it also gives an extremely good risk reward ratio. You can do VERY well in the case of success. As they do have great technology here :)
A lot will be clearer in 2-3 days, when the AFS will be released.
The mkt will judge these and the SP will react accordingly.
People can then decide whether to get out (those still left standing), or get in. IMO
Mkt cap is now 600k appx, if SP rises (for whatever reason) to eg 2mln, and funds to be raised are - say - 500k, then that's a 25% dilution. That's a good scenario BTW.
There are only ever opinions on that question. mine is probably not, it might (low possiblity) come out OK, and go from strength to strength, but honestly I think that is very unlikely, I don't trust the players that are involved any more.
Speaking as someone who has mostly sold out today, no.
Company need to raise money
Gb not to be trusted
With Deepverge managed to either run a successful company into the ground or invent a successful company using smoke and mirrors. 100% overstating, dodgy share trading, terrible loan. With Microsaic we are again wondering what the result will be after it’s audited.
I took the hint with one of the big players selling out yesterday. I’ve kept a million shares, and I’m already regretting that.
My guess with GB at the helm is suspension, last thing on Friday rns. But I could be wrong.
Genuine question from a newbie here, is MSYS investable?
Thanks 🧐
Day Traders are just that, trading it. Lets see if they can sell their shares as easily as they bought them.
One of MSYS largest holders dumped one out of three of their large holdings yesterday, I can see no reason why they won't be selling he remainder. MMs and traders are creating a false market spike here and many will be buying on the back of that because lately AIM has been full of micro cap stocks having amazing turnaround days despite the reality of the business and newsflow.
Caveat Emptor and only buy what you can afford to lose here.
I love this line "If the results and outlook are good" :) Essentially it translates to, "if the fraudsters behind DVRG who now run MSYS have changed their spots then all is good!!". As I say be warned...
Much more irony to be found in the title of this last Modern Water post, how fitting: https://www.modernwater.com/2023/06/13/improving-water-analysis-in-chernobyl-improved-fe-analysis-methodology-using-modern-water-microtrace-technology/
The irony is, the higher the SP goes, the less dilutive any potential fund raising would be, hence the more the SP should rise if the Results and the Outlook are good.
You have to hand it to the day traders out there, DVRG forums has investors reporting DVRG to the FCA for fraud and MSYS has a pump of 60% just now :) Is the day trading term a dead cat bounce. Let's not forget that DVRG CEO Nigel Burton is a director of MSYS and Gerard Brandon the ex CEO of DVRG is the CEO of MSYS!!! Be warned...
Top 5 shareholders
Owner name
chevron-r-regular
No. of shares
Unicorn Asset Management Ltd 750,000,000
Unicorn AIM VCT Series 3 ORD 750,000,000
Miton Asset Management Limited 277,941,873
Premier Miton UK Smaller Companies Fd 277,941,873
Miton UK Microcap 176,873,537
That was the seller
Miton Asset Management Limited 277,941,873
As a way to make amends, Gerry should exercise his options now, at 0.10, inject cash in MSYS and suffer an immediate 90% loss; sounds fair, doesn't it?
I guess all that remains now is to see Gerry being dumped in a police van for fraud (stealing MSYS cash to cover up his accounting fraud at DVRG); NBurton locking the van door as a "thank you" for losing him 96% of his 200k investment.
BTW 277mln shares dumped at 0.07 (4% of the co) must be a big reason for the crash; my only question is, who bought them?
Recent Share Trades for Microsaic (MSYS)
Date Time Trade Prc Volume Buy/Sell Value
26-Jun-23 15:39:12 0.007 277,941,873
Sol, the mess he left has taken a while to be seen for what is by the looks of it, although the question 'do we have the money we think we should have, or even close to that' so the board is to blame to not preventing it, but in the same way that the police are not responsible for a murderer murdering, the person who created the situation where it all went wrong is responsible for it being wrong, that's GB. End of. Where's the china contracts, or even any news from china at all? Other Govs were interested, no news, Labskin was going great guns, now it can't make a profit? STC overwhelmed with demand, again no profit.
I got suspicous when his answers on twitter were always 'it's in the RNS' to any query about contracts, and obvioulsy the RNS contained nothing about it, so he wasn't lying, there were future looking statements and we'll probably find that these were couched very carefully but sounded like likely future business etc. I was not suspicous enough however.
Clearly MSYS are looking to avoid trading while insolvent. With a cash burn of £100k per month they have said they will need to raise funds in Q3 (July-Sept). With such a low MCAP I doubt a placing will be possible so it looks like a CLIN type arrangement would be needed so they can draw down funds in exchange for an upfront fee (taken from the cash loaned) and then heavily discounted shares to make repayments. Seen it many times before elsewhere on AIM and there is an obvious reason why so many call it death spiral financing. eg MSYS could do a CLIN for say £300,00 less the up front fee (say 5-10%) and draw down cash each month in exchange for shares. Using the above £300k less fee say £30k = £270,00 lending facility, think of it as a credit card arrangement they can draw down say £50k per month for as long as it takes to use up the entire available cash loan. I will let others explain how CLINs work in reality.
Despite receiving indicative offers for both the Labskin (including Skin Trust Club and Rinocloud) and Modern Water businesses, in the voard's opinion none of these offers appears likely to reach a successful conclusion on a timely basis," DeepVerge said.
As a result, the company said it is unlikely that sufficient funds will be raised in time to allow its business units to continue to trade.
Offers in place it seems. So we just need to hear what these are and if it will be enough to pay back the debt.
Msys have £650,000 with no borrowing and releasing results this week.
If dvrg have indeed got Offers then this should help pay back the 1.35m all imo
I'm not standing up for GB in anyway. But he left last year 7-8 months ago and it was upto the new ceo in place to figure out the mess left behind. He would of been aware of the 1.4m owed to microsaic. The Auditor would also be aware of this as well. So somewhere after gb left there was a screw up and they have had all this time to fix it. Perhaps as some say Nigel is also involved in the conspiracy that is dvrg and msys. All imo
There are some exceptionally naive people on this BB.
DVRG is bust. There might be some organisations that buy DVRG's assets but they will not take over DVRG's obligations and debts. The sales proceeds are unlikely to cover all the DVRG creditors and in reality only those creditors that are oreferred or have security are likely to be repaid. Therefore unless MSYS is a preferred creditor, and I have seen nothing to suggest that it is, then MSYS is extremely unlikely to be repaid anything by DVRG.
Let us not forget that GB, currently a MSYS director, is responsible for this situation as he was a director of both MSYS and DVRG when the commercial arrangements were put in place. At the time there were plenty of comments on a number of BB (DVRG/Alltracel) suggesting that GB was a fraud more suited to work in the profession that he was trained for - a plumber. Those posters who said that DVRG and MSYS were completely seperate companies chose to ignore the commercial reality. As ever, GB has presided over a commercial disaster for PIs.
How he manages to get away with this time after time is a mystery.