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LTB, exactly, if a man in his position couldn't appreciate what was going on here and at DVRG then it just sums up his complete lack of knowledge etc. As you say, GB is far too "clever" to be challenged by anything NB could say or do. NB is toothless and just seeing complete disaster in both companies unfold.
I reckon Gerry hoodwinked him twice, once at DVRG (as a NED) with little personal loss and here at MSYS, at a huge money loss (he owns 5%), and since Feb 22, down 90% on the 200k he invested by exercising his options.
IMO NB is totally useless and out of his depth.
Maybe NB is trying to get Gerry kicked out?
Leaving it till the last minute
On 18 April 2023, the Company announced that it expected to release its FY22 Results during the first half of May 2023. As the audit is taking longer than initially anticipated, the FY22 Results are now expected to be published on or before 30 June 2023.
Short answer No
That's absolutely true and I think nobody will disagree with you.
It's also the issue of if RNSs cannot be relied on, what's the penalty for those who mislead investors? Isn't the LSE concerned?
To me the main question is why is GB still at the helm? He has clearly scr3wed DVRG and, by using MSYS as a piggy bank for DVRG he has, at best, severely wounded, MSYS. He has clearly misled the market (100% higher turnover than the reality), sold a bunch of shares when he must have been aware of the financial issues etc etc etc. He is not a fit a proper person to run any AIM company. It really is that simple.
Yankee,
To me at least, it's clear that they scre..wed us; but as I am still holding on to my stock, I still think that MSYS can be a great business (preferably without Gerry at the helm); in 2022, maybe 80-90% of Sales were to DVRG whereas current pipeline (not Sales, yet) as of April was 90% non-DVRG - this shows value in the services provided - which, I repeat - are highly specialised and save money for clients.
All the losses we have taken are SUNK costs right now, so yes I have a vested interest in MSYS surviving and flourishing; hence why these Audited FS are important, their release will - I hope - shed light on a lot of things; DVRG collapsing should - just IMO - make the Auditors extra wary of Gerry's BS so maybe the numbers will not be cooked up.
1 day to go. GLA
LTbeliever , admittedly and painfully I was an investor in MSYS and then noticed Gerard Brandon taking more of a role in things and started to do more due diligence.
I am here as I do believe that people have a right to do with their hard earned money as they wish and invest in what they wish, with of course as much knowledge as possible. I do see you constantly trying to look for the positive outcome in some accounts in a few days time, however one needs to look beyond that at this juncture based on the track record of those involved. Good luck to you but I will continue to investigate why my investment went bad, was it me as a bad investor or was I gamed by people I invested in. This I will find out.
Just to add that, yes we know that Gerry and NB are after their own interest, they may have acted criminally etc, but I am wondering - do they have the ball..s to continue acting in this manner, now that DVRG has gone under, everyone saw that Gerry simply took 1.4mln of MSYS money and flushed it down the DVRG drain etc?
Especially if new funding is announced tomorrow, will the funder/s let Gerry continue these shenanigans?
What I am saying is, the worst may be behind us (MSYS shareholders).
Let's wait and see.
Sp2, using your logic, what you are saying implies that IF Audited FS are released tomorrow - on a going concern basis - with funding options available, then MSYS will be a going concern and with cash sufficient for at least a year; this - excluding a potential dilution and the impact on the SP - would be great news, right?
No doubt to satisfy the 'going concern' criteria GB would have been forced to issue the RNS earlier this week regarding the need for funding in Q3 - which we will be in next week.
The caveat that the auditors will no doubt be insisting on is that the requirement for further funding is clearly stated in the accounts.
Therefore, as of now MSYS is not a going concern
Yankee,
I am an existing investor, so I have to wait and see; if you are an existing investor, why have you not sold out?
If you are not an investor, I quote you from your post below "Plenty of more investment opportunities out there to gamble on, stay well away from these people."
Yankee - very eloquently put
LTbeliever , I think the point Muggins is making is that we do not have to wait this week for anything, the board of MSYS is the board of DVRG , Nigel Burton and Gerard Brandon are effectively in charge here on both sides. The positive outcome here is nobody gets gamed by these people again. Why would anyone think there is any different outcome for MSYS with these people in charge. Some people have a large risk appetite and nothing wrong with that, however when there is complete deception in each and every RNS and turnover numbers being out by 100%!!!!!!! well that is not risk anymore that is just plain silly to invest. Plenty of more investment opportunities out there to gamble on, stay well away from these people.
Yes, I guess this is why an Audit for DVRG could not be completed (not a going concern, thanks to GJB's shenanigans) whereas it seems for MSYS they try to be more transparent e.g. they mentioned the "going concern" label in 2 different RNSs; so we just need to be a bit patient and see the numbers, the cash, the margins and what funding options they have in mind.
Of course, you really have to consider if anything that GB says is true. Let's not forget that he said that turnover this year at DVRG was 100% higher than it actually will be. He also said that DVRG was fully funded, that we were going to sign a JV with a large Chinese company, that we had a wide range of new world beating products coming to market - none of which were true. During this time he allowed MSYS to build up an extreme creditor position with DVRG whereby MSYS was effectively funding DVRG.
All the while he and Mrs GB were selling shares.
Very similar to Alltracel where he left PIs high and dry.
It would take a rather naive investor to take anything GB says at face value.
For me the biggest question for tomorrow, or Friday's release, is - how potential funding needs comply with the going concern "label", assuming of course the Auditors do indeed approve the Audited FS with this label. The definition follows, implying that - whatever happens - the Co is/will be funded for the next 12 months (the release of next year's AFS):
A going concern is an accounting term for a business that is assumed will meet its financial obligations when they become due. It functions without the threat of liquidation for the foreseeable future, which is usually regarded as at least the next 12 months or the specified accounting period (the longer of the two). The presumption of going concern for the business implies the basic declaration of intention to keep operating its activities at least for the next year. Hence, a declaration of going concern means that the business has neither the intention nor the need to liquidate or to materially curtail the scale of its operations."
And all will be revealed (whether it's accurate or not, that's another story!); No RNS today, RNS tomorrow or Friday, so just 24-48 hours to wait. Knowing GJB, a surprise cannot be excluded. GL to all suffering shareholders, and the new ones (who might prove very lucky, if things turn around).
Spants,
A few points from the last RNS (fwiw):
1. "Company continues to meet its obligations as they fall due and expects to notify, later this week, its accounts for the year-ended 31 December 2022 with the financial statements having been prepared on a going concern basis."
Going concern means that the Co can meet is obligations for at least 14-16 months, no caveats (how this does not contradict the potential need for WCap, I can't say!);
2. "pipeline having grown substantially since the last update on 18 April 2023, excluding any prospective revenue from DeepVerge ...", again fwiw
"A further update will be provided in the results statement later this week, in relation to current trading, outlook, funding strategy and the adoption of a going concern basis for the full year accounts." whatever this means, very open to interpretation IMO.
735k in H1, and 900k to DVRG in H2 (minimum, FWIW) as this was the net increase at Y/E 2022 of the DVRG debt, plus other income (200-300k maybe)? Close to 2mln for Full 2022.
2mln pipeline in Q1 2023 (1.8mln non-DVRG related), how much in Sales? 400-500k? just assuming.
So maybe another 700-800k in total for H2 23? Co said "slow start", whatever this means.
Shandypants2 lets hope you are right. I do not disagree with you. All I am saying is when you see good results for MSYS one should be raising an eye brow as like you they should not be good, they should not be good at all.
LTbeliever , fair points. The issue is we are not on the ground, transfer of assets, licensing agreements, selling off of equipment and moving of staff between organisations we have no oversight on. It is and will be a mess I have no doubt, but to say the resulst this week for MSYS could be good and solid and then it might have a chance is bananas because all things, point to complete and utter miss-management and if by some odd chance it is a good audit with positive outlook one needs to ask who is working for the auditing company considering the current DVRG Group Financial Controller Shiv Rawal worked as the assistant manager of Jeffreys Henry LLP Group FCO before switching over to Deepverge as a direct employee, awkward at best! So nothing is far fetched when it comes to audits also it seems.
Yankee really can't see how you can expect good results.
H1 rev was c£750k so let's say £1.5m for the YE. DVRG owed £1.4m so clearly is the only big client they have. The much touted pipeline is just that.
If your only big client is not paying, which is clearly the case here, you are in massive trouble.
Why do you think the accounts have been delayed? The auditor may have refused to sign them off as a going concern without caveats.
As for GB i suspect he is finished as a director. He clearly lied about revenues and delayed reporting profit warnings before the recent fundraise.