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£51.50 Dividend payout held for 2024 but 2025 questions...
To maintain or grow the Company’s dividend in the future is likely to require a combination of factors, notably a material improvement in LTL’s relative performance, a stabilisation in LTL’s FUM and consequent growth in its cash flow together with the continued compounding of the Company’s investments. That will be asking a lot over the next year and the Board will need to see evidence of this materialising before utilising more revenue reserves in order to maintain the Company’s dividend in 2025.
Started: ahkm65, 20 May 2024 13:58
Last post: Pedrobull, 7 Jun 2024 16:56
31 May 2024 £986.86 per Ordinary share.
Terminal decline, just watched an interview with Nick Train, he’s starting to sound like Neil Woodford, they are never going to do any good now investing so much into basket case U.K., the companies are neither good enough or big enough, he drones on about Diageo, Diageo is the same price now it was in 2017, hopeless investment.
Starting to look silly now, decent portfolio, approx 20% discount, director buying, all good as investors get longer to accumulate stock.
Started: Pedrobull, 17 May 2024 23:49
Last post: Pedrobull, 17 May 2024 23:49
Available at 20% discount
Buy Long Stay Happy
Started: cholseyn, 16 Jan 2024 15:50
Last post: Pedrobull, 16 May 2024 11:43
I'm back in with initial 7 shares at £797.80
will look to add
GLA
Why not!? Perhaps they take inspiration from this thread? ;)
Although I hope they wouldn’t use it as excuse to sell too much of LTI Ltd. That cash cow is our dividend hero
@gotoutjustintime, you make a very good point. Even a limited buyback programme would surely go some way to closing the discount. They could always hold the bought back shares in Treasury and re-issue them at NAV or a small premium in better times. That would keep the share count at 200K in the mid-term (sorry, I mistakenly said 250K in my original post). I agree for your reasons that they probably wouldn't want it to go above 200K.
All that said I think there is a slight practical issue. Right now they pay a very generous dividend, which is in turn mostly funded by the super generous payout from Lindsell Train Limited. After running costs at LTI there is currently very little surplus cash left in the tank for buybacks. Assuming they can't or don't want to take on debt in such an esoteric trust, then any meaningful buybacks would require cutting the dividend. And the special component of the dividend is already gone and we have been told to expect a nominal fall this year. So all a bit difficult. Just to add though that Finsbury Growth & Income Trust has been an active buyback participant. So as a group they are not theoretically averse to them.
But then the cynic in me thinks that there is another point, and that is that Michael and Nick, who are known to have a very LT mindset might not be too upset at the discount - it allows them to keep mopping up shares in LTI on the cheap. On a much smaller scale I am sort of in the same boat. I am bemused by the discount but see it as a great opportunity to tuck away more shares in LTI, in the expectation that one day the discount closes and the NAV reflates.
As a further aside my more major concern is something else. And that's the decision by LTI to sell some of its shares in LTI Ltd in order to incentivise the younger team. You may have seen todays RNS flagging a further sale in LTI Ltd. Granted the sums involved are small for now. And I get the need to keep the younger team members on board. All that said for me the stake in LTI ltd is the trusts USP and raise d'être. I can and indeed do hold Diageo directly. But its LTI's strategy and amazing profitability, which is the real draw. So the LT dilution of that stake lessens the LT interest in the trust for me
He hasn't. LTI's shares are bit of an outlier in being priced at a relatively high face value (only 250,000 shares in issue) i.e. at today's close £836 or 83,600p. According to the RNS Michael Lindsell bought 34 shares today at 84,366.336p, so a bit above the closing price. Confusingly many of the reporting services e.g. Yahoo finance don't make it super clear that their quote is in pounds and not pence. So you just see 836. In the superscript it says Currency in GBP. For a company like Diageo todays closing is 2797.5 (which is in pence) and the superscript reads Currency in GBP (0.01GBP). I guess because most share prices have low face value its natural to assume that the figure quoted is in pence and not pounds
As an aside I can't understand the discount to NAV on this one. Almost 15%. I guess it is a pretty unique trust what with c. 40% of the value being ascribed to Lindsell Train itself. Still the implied value of this stake is less than 6x P/E. That is amazing value even by the derated standards of the fund management sector. And then you get some cracking blue chips thrown in, many, like Diageo also trading at a deep discount to intrinsic value. No wonder management continue to mop up shares here. On a Mid-term view the value on offer here looks super compelling. I am also adding when funds available
Why has Michael paid 10 x the market value of the share for his top up?
Started: JohnRiggall, 10 Dec 2022 09:41
Last post: JohnRiggall, 10 Dec 2022 09:41
Julian Cazalet, Chairman purchased 25 shares @ £997.00 on December 8th. He also purchased 25 shares @ £970.00 on September 30th. He must be positive about the future prospects of this investment trust.
Started: riverbliss, 8 Dec 2021 18:47
Last post: LEXUS2DAVID, 8 Jul 2022 17:20
Now looking for a drop to 850 , let's see
Just wondered what the appeal of this trust is to those who hold? Although Train has a good long-term record, the short-term performance of the trust has been poor, with the NAV having having stood still for around 2.5 years, despite very wild fluctuations in the share price and premium/discount (of up to 40%). Is this trust really worth its premium? Must admit, I've never got my head around the massive weighting to Lindsell Train Ltd - and whether this is a benefit or disbenefit?
Started: RoyCruddock, 17 Nov 2020 19:13
Last post: RoyCruddock, 17 Nov 2020 19:13
core holding and just love these guys. performance year after year.
Any thoughts on this? Been holding for what seems like an eternity at an average sp 1270
moving back up nicely
good to see the sellers be replaced by more buyers
hoping now that many of sellers now cleared
so many shares in red today
ncyt buyers moving in there today
hoping for more buyers to do their own research amd then might to see this dip at lti as a opportunity to buy or top up
Needs to be my biggest holding. Undervalued
stabilised around £10. nice time to buy these babies.
Started: Treven, 29 Feb 2020 11:49
Last post: Treven, 29 Feb 2020 11:49
Now at a small discount to NAV which stood at 1,085 last week and will probably be higher now. NAV increased by 32.4% over 2019 but the share price has gone down slightly. The premium fluctuates wildly because investors cannot work out what LTL is worth. I agree with TalygarnTom as to the reasons for the fall and would also add that the performance of the funds haven't been quite as good recently because of the relative underperformance of so called defensive stocks.
I do however think this is likely to be the floor as Nick Train has always said he wants to increase his stake but won't whilst there is a premium to NAV as this would be implicitly stating he disagreed with the valuation method for LTL which he said he doesn't.
In the long run this will come good again. Nick Train is one of the best investors out there and this fund holds a 25% stake in his management company. How many opportunities are there to own a piece of something like that? I am sure that in a couple of years time people will look back at this and wish we had taken advantage of a rare moment when you could buy in for zero premium.
I'm holding.
Now this is really seriously not funny Its down 7.5 today.
LTI has just got so pants.
A lot of fund’s saw significant withdrawals, up to 10%, from June onwards last year spooked by a combination of Woodford fallout and Brexit jitters. The off the back of the initial Woodford reports Train was hit with liquidity concerns. Personally, I think it’s all a blip and as long as the NAV continues to perform this trust is as good as any. https://www.trustnet.com/news/7461001/nick-train-brushes-off-liquidity-concerns-after-ratings-downgrade
In 2019 Funds under Management grew 41% to £21.9 billion. Not bad.
Does anyone know if Lindsell Train are taking new money in or are their funds seeing redemptions? Just want to know if the business is growing or shrinking
Started: OliG, 14 Feb 2020 13:19
Last post: Greasedizzy, 15 Feb 2020 16:26
Well, I sort of meant not way above NAV.
A true price?.
That also depends on how popular the funds are?
Well hargrieves took lti off the reccommended list because lti holds a small slice of hargrieves who, I am sure would not want to get into further misselling trouble after the woodford scandal. Perhaps now lti has found its true price level and we can grow steadily from here. I hope so anyway.
Oh dear, what's happening here?.
Ah, I see now. Thanks. This is seriously not good.
Started: Chesh153, 12 Feb 2020 11:29
Last post: Figgsey, 14 Feb 2020 13:18
It seems to be under pressure every day. I am down and take today - down 6%.
Its lost its way for sure.
Any one know why LTI is under pressure today? can't see any news out there.
Started: OliG, 3 Dec 2019 12:06
Last post: ODONNELL, 22 Jan 2020 19:01
We trade ITs a lot but do generally avoid those few with a premium. With a discount they give you a better yield. We do acknowledge that some always trade at a premium and this did hit around the £19 mark so if it drops to £10 or £11 with the same premium it may be worth buying as some of its holdings may be out of favour, therefore worth buying. We go for stocks / sectors out of favour as they usually come back and often give a decent dividend in between.
4% premium and 2.4% yield, this is now looking like a sensible investment
7% premium now! I’ve never seen it so low. Topped up. Shame about my paper loss though......
I feel confident I will be in profit eventually though. NAV has gone up over the last couple of months
The long term success of this Trust will be determined by the success of the funds management by Lindsell Train Limited which now represents 50% of NAV. If the funds perform well more people will invest in them and therefore the earnings of LTL will grow. In 2019 Lindsell Train Global, its biggest fund, was the 2nd most popular fund on the Interactive Investor platform. Not surprising given its annual return is 20% over 5 years. Not even Fundsmith beats that.
Nav is frequently updated. Present situation premium 13%. I'd sooner trust Nick and co at a premium than most others at a discount.
Started: Greasedizzy, 8 Jan 2020 12:30
Last post: Greasedizzy, 8 Jan 2020 12:30
when will the pain end !
Started: Figgsey, 5 Nov 2019 09:07
Last post: Figgsey, 16 Nov 2019 20:23
Ah, now I see. Thank you OliG. I always have a rant at the broker when they make excuses. But not this time.
There were some big purchasers yesterday. Someone bought £73k worth. When I bought in I had to do it in 4 small parcels to get the position I wanted. Liquidity is not great in this stock because it is relatively small and they don't issue new shares but you should be able to get one with a decent broker. Who do you use?
I see, and thank you for your swift reply and incite. Incidentally I was trying all day yesterday to place an order with the broker and was unable to do so. There seemed to be a liquidity issue in the sense that there were no sellers dealing at the time. How strange.
Figgsey, its important to understand that LTI is not a normal investment trust in one key aspect. 51% of its net asset value is a 25% stake in Lindsell Train Limited which is the company that manages all the Lindsell Train funds. The company's external accountants do a valuation of those shares because there is no market value as with all the other investment holdings. The premium is therefore investors saying they believe the value of Lindsell Train Limited is higher than that calculated by the accountants. I am in the camp. If you look at the growth of Lindsell Train over the last 5 years it has been phenomenal. This growth has been achieved because LT funds have performed consistently well and therefore the funds under management have grown. They are now £22.1 billion. A year ago they were £16.1m so the growth continues.
Being too hasty and without my coffee I bought shares in my first IT. But I forgot to check the premium. According to the FT this is about 29%. Should I be worried?
Started: Figgsey, 14 Nov 2019 15:46
Last post: Figgsey, 14 Nov 2019 15:46
Is it my imagination or has performance declined since the July selloff? I guess there is high correlation with FTSE and perhaps some seasonal factors at play.
But more generally, if say a global IT has no correlation with the FTSE 100 but there happens to be a general selloff would I be correct to assume that even global IT's do not really provide exposure to other markets as these are ultimately traded on LSE...
Last post: Herbieridesaga, 6 Sep 2019 06:56
Did make the point about the NAV long ago but historically this is near bottom at 20% premium and what would price be if the core company was sold off ?? \therefore think it is safe to buy again - but the damage caused by the HL. and WPCT fiascos and now the BUR short may mean it's a long time before it goes silly again - if ever. JMHO
£1,057.5497 per Ordinary share ON THE 20TH AUG
heading towards a 20% premium, Why pay £1300 for something worth £1057 ?
The shares need at least a 100 for 1 re-rating, at £1300 each they put smaller investors off , when they were were about £2000 we got out. Think the NAV is at a premium of about 10% So why pay more for shares than they are worth. If confidence disappears the NAV could drop to a 10% discount, giving you a 20% loss.
Started: BruceJamieson, 30 Jul 2019 09:58
Last post: dsc1978, 8 Aug 2019 18:02
I bought too soon. Down 20%.
Hopefully it rises now.
The only nav I can find under fundamentals is 89 in April. I hate to say it as I have always been a fan of nick train but he is showing signs of Neil Woodford syndrome. I bought one share at 1500 and sold it at almost 2000. Only £500 but I lost my bottle. A large premium means a minimum risk of that premium. Cannot see any reason to reinvest at these levels. Plenty of investment trusts conservatively managed at a discount, Dunedin net is winding up but good value, also Oakley capital.
Started: wellwell, 12 Jul 2019 09:35
Last post: johandesilva, 24 Jul 2019 14:46
What is the NAV on this? This is really one to drip-feed because even at 30% more than NAV there is downside.
The standard behaviour would the SP follows close to the NAV, so £1100, £1200 at a push?
The dividend is about a month away, and under 2% at these prices.
LTI doesn't appear to have a standard behaviour.
I wonder what a fair price is here? I just bought in as a punt but I have no idea
I got in a bit early on the way down at 1,476 and on the bounce at 1,430, would have been nicer to get them at 1,201 though :(
Me too. 11 units, Thursday. Wish I'd got more :-)
Last post: my2penneth, 10 Jul 2019 16:56
Anything that is trading over NAV needs to do so for a good reason. Clearly 80% over NAV is a nonsense. Train was warning people at much lower levels. Why pay £1.80 for a loaf worth £1? Daftness ..and now the bubble has popped.
I would only consider getting back in at 10 to +25% to NAV. I was lucky I sold as soon as someone explained the odd NAV situation.
Yes, you'd lose 5% on the spread before you even start. Then you;d be buying something at a price well over the underlying NAV.
Alas; ~ the current 5.2% spread less so for short term holders!
Dropping closer to the NAV, which makes it an attractive proposition.
Started: my2penneth, 10 Jul 2019 12:58
Last post: my2penneth, 10 Jul 2019 12:58
Looks like the Nick Train bubble is leaking gas.
Started: BruceJamieson, 9 Apr 2019 11:59
Last post: malcwatson, 9 Jul 2019 12:12
Agree. Premium as low at is has been for some time. Have bought at 1580 and now at 1485. been waiting for 6 months to get back n after selling last November.
As I have remarked before - look at the nav - almost dropped back to a buy level now... almost
Just a few! https://t.co/SF73w0x8pR
It sounds like they only removed it due to a conflict of interest, I'm assuming LT own shares in HL and HL don't wish to be promoting the fund as it may be seen as promoting for the wrong reasons
Very large drop in share price this morning. Seems Hargreaves Lansdown have today removed LT from their wealth 50 listing.
Details as per HL,
"We have taken the decision to remove the Lindsell Train UK Equity Fund and the Lindsell Train Global Equity Fund from the Wealth 50 list of our favourite funds at the end of the month.
We continue to have high conviction in managers Nick Train, Michael Lindsell and James Bullock and their ability to outperform in the future. This is not a decision based on a change in our view of the managers or a reflection of their performance.
We have policies and procedures to help us manage the Wealth 50 list of favourite funds. As part of this, we keep under review the proportion of Hargreaves Lansdown plc shares owned by a fund, or multiple funds controlled by a single manager, on the Wealth 50. We do this to protect the interests of our clients and shareholders, the independence of our investment process, and the service we provide."
Strange that HL will remove a good one after the debacle of Woodford.