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https://www.osram-group.com/en/innovation/dms
use of VCSELs in future vehicles due to legislations around the world.
Osram is only one of the many suppliers of DMS to manufacturers and Tier1 suppliers . Euro Ncap mandatory DMS in all vehicles manufactured from 2022.
The use of lasers in autonomous vehicles is much trumpeted by some of the companies using WAYMO springs to mind. However there are several very big problems with it.
1) The areas where these autonomous vehicles operate are geo-fenced meaning the cars only work in the areas that have been expensively mapped by engineeers prior to letting the cars loose. They will NOT work in un-mapped areas.
2) Apparently these systems are very adversely affected by falling snow and rain (neither of these is much of a problem in Phoenix Arizona where Waymo operate.
3) The systems are currently very expensive estimates vary but 100000 dollars per vehicle or more are out there (not including the vehicle
The alternative system - cameras, ultrasonic sensors and radar (already installed in every Tesla vehicle) will when completed be capable of driving autonomously anywhere. The AI running the system is greatly dependent on data Tesla has over 3 billion miles of data now collected in numerous countries in all sorts of weather (Waymo several million miles).
In short I am not invested here for this application of VSCELS, I am quite hopeful for lots of sales in facial recognition for smart phones though.
That's counter to articles I've read over the last couple of years Dogberry. There's no requierement for geofencing for Lidar systems. Why would there be but not for camera based ones? Maybe WAYMO are using it to get a headstart for certain use cases but that's just them. Most experts I've read about believe Tesla's use of cameras is pie in the sky and will never reach true self driving capabaility. Finally, most solutions are well below $100k. Even full LIdar systems were around $40k a couple of years back. Companies exploring the use of high powered VCSELS are using them to bring the price of such systems down to more mass market costs.
Hi Bass
My understanding of the need for Lidar to be used in geofenced areas is from numerous articles and youtube videos from what appear to be well informed people. My understanding is that the area a Lidar system will work needs to be comprehensively mapped first presumably so that the system can acurately 'know' where it is. Perhaps you could let me know which Lidar system is working in non geofenced areas and where. As for the cost you state a full Lidar system was available for 40000 dollars two years ago does that also include the other sensors radar and ultrasound as well? Waymo vehicles are Pacifica vans costing 60000 dollars various sources have said that the sensing systems installed cost approximately another 100000 dollars apparently Waymo are not saying. Either way you can buy a fully equipped and auto-pilot software enabled Tesla for about 60000 dollars. The 'experts' in self driving believe that the winner will be be the one with the most data to train the AI system and Tesla is by far and away ahead of the field by orders of magnitude. We should soon see some movement forward Musk says that his software rewrite will be rolled out in a few weeks to selected users and to the fleet probably by the end of the year. Time will tell, I think you would have to be very brave to bet against Mr Musk.
Hi Dogberry, I would describe myself as interested not and expert so I can't be comprehensive I'm afraid.
I generally get my information from Arstechnica. It's a pretty trustworthy and deatiled site. They carried a fairly comprehensive review of where LIDAR was a couple of years ago.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/02/the-ars-technica-guide-to-the-lidar-industry/
A top end Velodyne unit was indeed $100k. Mid range $75k. However, they'd got their lowest grade system down to $4k (not ($40k, my mistake). Other companies on the list were talking of units costing as low as $250. They're not all selling in the market yet but some are. Considering Tesla's heading toward "open beta" (God knows what that means on public roads) it's horses for courses. The interesting one for us is Ouster who sell long range unis for $24k and low range ones for $3.5k. The interesting point being that they're using VCSELs to bring their costs down and they expected them to come down further. I'm sure I've read articles since about other companies using VCSELs as well. I think we're justified in being optimistic IQE will eventually be involved in this market.
I just can't think of any reason why LIDAR would need geofencing but cameras not. My guess is the companies you mention are using it to leap ahead. It's a short cut to adding some high level control before they can build the full self driving brain. I have heard of Volvo developing such a system for trucks so that they can basically just be on rails on motorways and talk to other simillarly equiped vehicles nearby to automatically convoy up. LIDAR doesn't need it though. The above article is high level but comprehensive and doesn't mention geo fencing anywhere.
Interesting point on that truck system. It requires 5G base stations to be placed every few meters on equiped roads. Very nice for IQE!
Data is another part of the puzzle. Tesla may well have a great database. I have heard that they plan to license it to become a self driving software platform provider. They might succeed and that's the kind of thing that could start to justify the current share price. I'm sure other companies can collect data though and it's early days.
Hi Bass
I will run through stuff that is widely available about Teslas self driving system.
1) All the vehicles they build come with the capability built in. They do charge extra to have it activated currently I think it is $8000. The system whether activated or not / turned on or not still sends data back to Tesla.
2) Tesla has accumulated a vast amount of data of particular interest is where autopilot is on but the driver takes over.
3) Interestingly Teslas using autopilot are about eight times safer than vehicles with a human driver (in the USA 1 accident every 4.5 million miles as opposed to around 460,000 miles.
Currently Lidar systems are not fitted in the vehicle when it is built so it is a retro fit also they need to install the computer and I believe Radar and ultra-sound sensors too all of which is expensive. My understanding of the Geo-fencing is that a 3 dimensional map is made and all the fixed objects are mapped and labelled with Sat-nav coordinates this enables the vehicle to know where it is at all times in the Geo-fenced area so it can also detect other moving objects around the vehicle and take appropriate action. Tesla autopilot has eight cameras 1 forward facing Radar and several Ultra-sound sensors. There is a brilliant explanation on Youtube the Tesla Autonomy day. Essentially what Tesla wants to do is to train the computer to drive like the best human driver so that it will function anywhere just like a human driver
I am not against Lidar I think there will be huge market in the security industry for facial recognition and for mobile computing products and smart phones it may even do away passwords.
I have it on my phone, for most of a year now, and it really is very convenient. The kind of thing you will not step back from once you've had it.