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I love how the elderly and boomers throw around the phrase snowflake, until they realise that their behaviour and put downs pretty much mean the young are increasingly aware of the sh8t deal they have been handed, and would be more than willing to throw granny under a bus to enhance our futures. We learnt well from our parents.
Who is the snowflake now?
ma'rabid, that's the best you can come up with? Education was clearly wasted on you then I see. Shame.
Anyway, the route on the market has resumed, albeit in slow motion now. The hysterical world reaction and the failure for signs to emerge that U-turns are even being considered is now going to settle into the markets. This time round though, the lockdowns are being openly questioned and the damage done will most likely inform to delay future lockdowns as it becomes accepted by the 'slow' scientists that the initial observations of Omicron were correct. I think there has something to do with the source being SA and there is a lot of residual anti-SA resentment from the apartheid error hanging around. So the SA input has been largely dismissed. Then we have the problem with slow science. Modern scientists are no longer high brow intellectuals who will change tack with ease. They are like slow lumbering tankers that have to be stroked and persuaded to consider and then accept what they previously BELIEVED in. It is far less these days about fact and much more about fitting the data to fit your desired outcome and bias. The whole climate change crap is testament to that. Note how many carefully selected scientist gob ****es selected for interview are able to instantly accept the notion there is a major problem and they must be given immediate control, but refuse point blank information that would lead to relinquishing that control and instead are insisting they must control the narrative for at least two or three weeks. As with a lot of things, this has more to do with the vanity then the science.
"Stay at home then. Why should my kids futures be screwed up to pay to protect old people, when they can do that simply by not leaving the house?"
You messed that up a bit but ....
So you think all children younger than your own that do not meet some sort of able bodied threshold are also to be culled? Does the colour of skin matter? Religion? Gender [real or imagined]? Do you dream of a puritanical arian landscape by any chance? I find you Smithy, to be a thoroughly repulsive individual. You need to be incarcerated immediately to protect the community. You have expressed intent to rid the planet of old people and in my opinion are such a danger to society you should be committed.
Jtan, I find the response to the variant completely wrong. It shows the world is a long way from returning to rational thinking, if it ever was at such a level to begin with. The human being is a very flawed animal. Boris has got this very wrong, he is playing to the media gods gallery rather than pragmatic considerations. The policy and reaction is wrong, especially since those involved in SA are feeding back info by the hour.
And for masks, well Scotland has mandatory mask wearing. England does not. Who is now reporting multiple cases of the variant?
Young kids are not dying of Covid.
People with an an average of 3 life limiting conditions and above average life expectancy are.
It just so happens that the Quality life years the elderly have left in them, particularly in the state they are when they become super vulnerable to Covid, is next to naught, therefore there is insufficient cost benefit to wet ourselves over something that has very little impact upon the rest of us.
And this anyhow can be avoided. By expecting pensioners, who have a social contract with those of us that pay their way in taxation, to stay out the way until a solution has been found. Vulnerability based lockdowns only. No nightclub closures, no stopping university education.
Accept that you can’t pop down the pub, go to bingo, go on that saga cruise. That is the right thing to do for the collective good of society.
b-b, Not condoning mass culling in any way, but when do you think 'end of life' should be? you do realise that we all die? End of life is when you live your whole life, then age takes it's toll, body does not recover from minor scrapes, illness's, pain throughout joints. this is life telling you that your time is running out. Compound that with inability to perform simple tasks, not being able to recognise people around you, dribbling, losing bowel control, these do not make for a dignified 'life', more of a mental torture chamber, yet we insist on artificially keeping people alive, to what end? Keep care homes in business?
If be interested to hear a solution from you that doesn’t pass the buck to later generations to pay. All I’m hearing is squeamishness and no recognition of the situation we find ourselves in BB.
Problem is Boris and Gov can’t row back on this now for a few days. / next week.
“We’ve investigated and scientists say the booster will give protection against variant”
It’s being done BB, because of typical voter demographic. If Boris could be re-elected by throwing granny to the wolves, he would.
Rules to be revisited in 3 weeks. So hopefully by then they've stopped playing with people and get bk on track.
Smithy… Bozza lost a lot of grey matter when he had Covid… now he looks like werzel gummidge without the brain
People who hold such little value to life like you Smithy, are a danger to everybody. You have crossed over to a place where, in your mind, you have qualified harming and indeed killing off people. You are an extremely dangerous person and should be immediately taken into custody and committed. I support living wills where people lay down the conditions for their own end of life, more formally than often happens now, and support the idea of cliniques to terminate life as a matter of choice for terminal conditions. I do not support maintaining life during intensive suffering that will never be relieved. But it is by choice. Not by a Smithy dictat, who may live and who may die depending on whether you're having a good or bad day with your PTSD. Go back to your forces medic, show them your posts on here and consent to whatever intervention they think is necessary. Sorry for your troubles. I hope you can recover and rejoin society latter.
You do understand that these decisions are made without patient consent on a daily basis within the NHS don’t you?
You do understand what NICE does, and what role QALY assessment has on their work?
Do you think patients get a say in that? Think you are going to be quite shocked if you actually bother to do some research.
Bozza is a disgusting fat body. He had months to shed the pounds before he got whacked by Covid. I’ve not seen him running for a while, perhaps someone needs to remind him that gluttony induced type 2 diabetes is not good for NHS capacity, or his ability to fight a future Omicron Delta infection?
I happen to know quite a lot about what goes on in the end of life decision tree. NICE by the way was an invention of the Blair government whereby they could palm off the politically hot decisions on what healthcare and medicines are available. Labour made huge headwinds hammering the Tories on a daily basis about healthcare rationing for over a decade. When they got into office and discovered just how horrifically expensive it would be to do what they had been asking for and finding there weren't even people around to deliver it, they invented things like NICE to put caps on treatments without the finger of cuts being pointed directly at them. It was a classic Blair/Brown smoke and mirrors.
First of all, let's all just calm down and accept what is being said on here in not personal, nor should it be. People are just venting and that is healthy.
It is not a virus that is keeping our lives on pause, but worthless world 'leaders' that are corrupt. The virus will come and will go, when it is ready, not before. As humans we have evolved (some of us) to be able to fight off these, the infirm, old or immunocompromised will have it more tough, they are the one's that need to take care and pre-cautions, but not at the expense of everyone else. So, have a coffee, tea or whatever you need, know that this could all disappear at the behest of a few influential world leaders accepting that we must get on with it.
Smithy, “ Why should my kids futures be screwed up to pay to protect old people,”
But surely, being as these “old people” you refer to have already paid their “dues” (i.e. paid taxes into “the system” for 50 years or more), maybe they have more right to receive medical protection, given that you have chosen to bring up the subject of the monetary cost of providing what is “arguably” deemed to currently be an “adequate” level of health protection.
“health protection” is more encompassing than merely the costs to provide medical remediation, it also covers the costs of whatever sociological protection measures that may be deemed “appropriate” to bring suitably robust preventative measures into play to prevent a collapse of our medical resources as might likely be witnessed through letting a virus run unchecked throughout the population.
It is a commonly accepted philosophy that “prevention is better than cure”.
Or perhaps I have misunderstood the crux of your argument, and the underlying message that you are putting across is that in a civilised society the ethics of providing an equal level of protection to all is inherently wrong, and it should be primarily based on a “survival of the fittest” basis ?
So perhaps you can clarify your stance, are you promoting a “civilised society” philosophy, or are you promoting that the human race would be best suited to regressing and adopting a “law of the jungle” philosophy ?
"Why should my kids futures be screwed up to pay to protect old people"
Why should I be paying taxes to protect your kids? They are not my responsibility yet my taxes are spent in so so many ways to look after your kids, in the NHS, policing to protect them on the streets, education whether private or state, tax benefits for you [huh!] and the rest of the infrastructure from government coffers to provide a quality of life they won't find in many other places on the planet for free. Why am I , indeed why are any of us paying to provide your children any quality of life. Should we not put them on a plane and dump them in Kenya and let nature take its course - survival of the fittest?
b-b, first of all, your taxes are paying forward, to the old NOW, you are not paying into a 'piggy bank account' for you to take from later, that will be the problem for the young generations. Any taxes you pay are for care now, not later. You will find that when you need to take from later, not a lot will be there as the tank is near empty now and the young are having a hard time filling it. I know that the current retirees are and will have it much better than I will when I retire, yet I am asked to pay more and more to an ever decreasing end amount (private pension). Why the fook is my money being paid to the old to have a good life now, knowing that when it comes to my turn to collect I'll be fooked?
Don't assume your taxes are to help those that come after you, they are paid to help those ahead of you.
"
But surely, being as these “old people” you refer to have already paid their “dues” (i.e. paid taxes into “the system” for 50 years or more), maybe they have more right to receive medical protection, given that you have chosen to bring up the subject of the monetary cost of providing what is “arguably” deemed to currently be an “adequate” level of health protection."
Here is the problem. If what you say is true, that previous generations paid their way, how is it, despite the huge demographic boomer bulge we have approaching retirement is it possible, we have 80% of private wealth held by the over 60 year group in the UK, and despite this, our national debt isnt positive, its over 2 trillion negative, and significantly growing month by month?
How is it that by a considerable margin, state pension benefit (yes, the state pension is a benefit) and the NHS gobble up the vast majority of departmental spending? Have a look at which generations consume that NHS and pension expenditure. It isnt my kids! They didnt pay enough into the system in the first place!
The older generations have quite clearly spent out the state finances, and expect this status quo to continue, no matter what the cost to later generations.
And again there is no reason for Fred and tilda to die. They just dont leave the house if they are covid vulnerable. National vulnerability based lockdown is the solution, not destroying wealth generation in this country, which has been destroyed enough by greedy boomers voting in a quality of life only they will get to enjoy, and later generations will have to pay for.
I definitely do not agree with these extremely aggressive points of view. I find them to be very dangerous and contrary to law. If somebody doesn't take advantage of the vaccine that is their prerogative and there behaviour should not preclude the rest of society going about it's business. But the flip side of that is true, those wishing to go about their business may not shut away others they don't judge as fit to share the same open space as them.
As far as pensions and future wealth provision goes, families used to look after their own and even aged relatives made a useful contribution to the household. It is actually the utilitarianism of the left that has resulted in aging relatives being manipulated to maintain independence when the families don't actually want that. This is why there is such a sharp rise in equity release, the transfer of wealth is underway well ahead of the reading of the will.
Disagree all you want.
Triage checklist when hospitals are overrun by gasping ageds, or instead, protect them, through vulnerability based lockdowns. They are the choices. No elective life saving surgery either should be cancelled to generate extra capacity for those who dont stay at home and are clinically vulnerable.
Whole population lockdown and further trashing later generations state finances isn't one of them. Your ridiculous dogma and refusal to accept the situation is not a mitigation to do the same, pointless, wasteful cr(p over and over again.
So today - Boris PM press conference. Claim ownership for booster roll out acceleration - this will defeat the variant.
Should start to get more positive from Wednesday on ?
Massive panic because 2 ain't enough but 4 will defeat the transformer varient. This country is being laughed at by its officials