Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
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Just re reading my 13.47 post , feel I need to clarify .
Whilst my first 3 or 4 sentences read as if I am against the draft , I am not
.Whilst it presents a character assassination of the Co / officers , its a true reflection of our plight / history .
If we get no response than that would indicate to me games over anyway so would be happy to send parting shot .
Couple of views on draft letter content .
Headline in Govt leaning press ...Western speculators in our country loose their pocket money in FRR as Company deserts them .
I would imagine Mr Joe Public in Georgia reaction to be something along the lines of ...poor little rich folk in UK loosing their gambling money whilst our folk linked to Company loose their jobs.....
Our enemies in Georgia and USA will say ...great just what we need ...
I think it paints Zaza as a lair and cheat and us as fools , taken in by him and now spitting our dummies out .
Having said the above the object is to get the Company to engage with us and negate the need to forward the letter to anyone outside the company .
I would be in favour of sending letter to ZM , SN and LG giving them a clear response date .
If they fail to respond with the knowledge of what will be sent to Georgia then that will tell its own story and we have nothing further to lose by forwarding on .
The draft presented to them will of course be what we will send to reporter if we get no / unsuitable response . So I would add into the draft they see a final para that we had presented it to them and still were ignored .
Re the timings of before after election should we have to involve the press.
Suppose it depends on how long we give them to respond , I was thinking 7 days but 14 may be more reasonable, if they take us seriously they will have to communicate internally / come up with response etc , we want a proper thought out one not a holding one .
If sent today that takes us into October for deadline end ( assuming no response or they leave it till last moment .
Their response if any , will I assume assist us in deciding next action i.e. are we happy with it or not , do we need to respond to them for any clarifications etc or are they so dismissive of us that we involve reporters.
Whatever , I think the question of before or after election cannot be made until we see how they react and we have taken a view .
Finally I think the covering letter we send to them is just as crucial in its wording as the actual “ press release “ it needs to be a good balance of hard & threatening / on their side ( for now)
Timing is everything, Ill let you know when I agree that its time for you to throw your toys out the pram SR.. thats likely to be when hope is all but extinquished a time im pretty sure you are trying your hardest to bring forward.
Im logging off now I don;t want Loed to have to read all this rubbish .. Im pretty sure SR just wants to muddy the waters as much as he can,
Becasue SR we don't have any choice those of us (obviously not youself) handed over money to him. If he fails we fail. Destroying the companys reputaion in Georgia has been GG main aim recently and this will certain aid that aim as full well you know.
For balance and I know you will hate this SR as it flies in the face of your retoric that I am a paid ramper. It is very possible this company has been a political tool all along to aid Georgia transition to the west possibly with the outcome of the company never ever bringing in any finacial returns. However it is clear that Georgia needs to transition to the West to stand ANY chance of a finacial return and to develope any of Georgia resources and to challenge Russia energy dominance of Europe.
I think there is a very good chance the label liar could be hung on your door SR
If Loed didn't give a monkeys what the rest of us thought and was going to just send the letter anyway then I suspect he would have just done it anyway and not even bothered to write on this board.
I hope it doesn't waste too much of his time reading this BS in his morning.
Loed has done a great deal and we all only have great respect and appreicaition for him.
It just seems liek a big gamble to risk damaging the company just to get an email from them saying 'Sorry can't talk right now will be in touch later' Which realistically is all you are likely to get until we move onto firmer ground ie with a governement that actually wants us in thier Country.
well looed only asking our view he can go right ahead and sort it himself if he wants
Of course none of us are sure what is going or what the best course of action, except of course SR who knows exactly.
SR you seem to be putting alot of words in Loed mouth which ironic really as I am the bully for suggesting that perhaps a way forward which is agreeable to the majority of shareholders (which ever that may be) would be best.
I am very happy to see what Loed has to say on the matter as opposed to what SR says Loed has to say on the matter.
I am for writing to the company / sentator / emabassy but perhaps we could just give tehm teh deadline of after the election I really feel that is the make or break here and it seems SR does as well except perhaps we favours break.
Clearly stories in the Georgian media do sway votes else why would GG and Zaza have such an open slaning match?
As shareholders, the main reason for our investment is to make money. At the moment, that ambition has largely shrunk to hoping to get our money (or even part of it!) back. If we have any chance at all of seeing even that money, then destroying whatever good reputation the company has - particularly in it's homeland, doesn't strike me as being a good way of achieving any sort of remittance.
I understand the anger of course. But going to the press and effectively asking them if they want to destroy the company before the election - before we have seen whether this might lead to a good outcome for us - is short-sighted in the extreme.
We are still shareholders. While that remains the case, there is always the hope, however dim, that something good will come out of this mess. If we throw the company to the wolves, then even that faint hope will disappear, and so will all prospects of ever seeing a return of any sort on our investment.
I can see no good coming out of alerting the press before the election, apart from blindly letting off steam - an empty gesture, just sound and fury that achieves nothing useful.
Like what you are doing Star? Give me strength!
EkXoc
I will only say along lines of what you have said on not letting SR have any control/imput on this decision.
Overall I can see good reasoning on both sides on whether to make contact before or after election. So whatever one is chosen, let's hope that it helps us on finding out some concrete info on what the fck, is happening.
Enjoy
Bullying mob as in the opposition in Belarus (or even Russia)?
Thats a very fine line you are walking there SR.
I vote wait until after elections.
Not a surprising post SR, not keen on Democracy eh?
Im very sure Loed would not go against the majority of the shareholders wishes. I do trust HIS best intentions.
Looed,
What a great effort putting all that together! I fully support your sending it to FRR and then, after some time for a response, to a reporter. Apart from a few typos in part 1, is it worth adding the fact that the government paid some compensation for unpaid salaries to the 80 ex-Frontera employees of some 380 USD each? Zaza seemed utterly indifferent to their plight also.
We should use the timing of the election to our advantage in that there is an incentive for the company to reassure shareholders and not risk attracting media attention in the run-up to the election if there is anything worthwhile going on in the background.
i vote do something now its the perfect time
if somethings happening zaza or someone from company should be quick to respond
mole your posts are terrific
Hopefully democracy is not lacking in Georgia or on this board. This could be easily resolved with a vote. As much as I like to see comments from SR as it gives me confidence that if someone finds the energy to attack something then that something is worthy of attack. However the main thing is not to let SR take over the thread and distract us from our aims.
Can we take a vote?
i tend to agree Lubumbashi - hope all good with you.
brg - i think mole has more than burnt the bridge that makes that suggestion a reality - lmoa
Hi all,
My tuppence worth, that's what my shares appear to be worth.
FRR has never been a typical AIM company. When it was listed we never heard a thing until the pressure was put on and the Zaza era started and we received great comms. Those were probably part of our undoing (if you believed the reserves that were being discovered) because every one wanted to be in on it. The Russians couldn't believe what they had left behind, the GG got greedy and tried to renegotiate and, worst of all, we had an internal squabble with Hope/Outrider trying to stage a palace coup. All of this combined set in motion what should have been the demise of FRR had it been a normal AIM listing. But, here we are 2 years on with still a glimmer of hope that the Phoenix might rise.
Maybe it is time to do something to tip the balance. The involvement of a journalist or respected analyst (Malcy?) could be the answer. The basis of the proposed letter looks good, I would include more on the Outrider squabble as I believe Hope was inn serious dereliction of his fiduciary duties. I think the key to getting an answer from the company will be in the choice of who the letter is sent to.
Just my thoughts.
Stay safe
Lubs
Saying SR is TW is as ridiculous as say EkXoc is Zaza.
It seems to me that almost everyone supports Looed's message, and the first draft is an excellent start, but that a slight majority appear to support delaying until after the election.
The first time in a while that Madp and myself have the same view :).
if SR is not employed by TW then he is TW himself on this day.
Yet again SR seems to focus on whatever will cause disent and disruption to the thread. Are you saying that my opinion not to contact a Journalist BEFORE the election is not valid purely because of some paranoid delusion that I am Zaza?
SR seems happy to post any sort of document that runs a negative view point one minute saying we can only believe what is written by some unknown source and then the next asking us to believe some crazy theory he has dreamed up to discredit another poster the next. One way or another the theme remains the constant with SR.
What is being discussed here is the timing and the approach of putting pressure on the company for an update.We should not let SR distract us from that.
I would make my point one more time, the Georgian election is hanging in the balance the Russian way is to throw out all sort of 'information' into the public realm to confuse and undermine opposition, a public shareholder attack on one of the primary potential investors in Georiga is an ideal tool for doing just that. I seem to remember accusations were made against the consortium building the port, accusations which are likely to be proved false AFTER the election when the damage is done.
The single largest impediment to progress in Georgia has been the government preventing further investment and clearing that obstacle seems to have been the companies main focus of late as it could open the flood gates for new investment.
Why would a serious investor threaten that potential progress 40 odd days before an opportunity to change the government to a more favourable western facing one? It makes no sense.
Mad and others.
I think we have reached the point where while the Georgian media provided a distraction since march and yes it's been that long - the sudden cut off of that source of information has brought many to the point where frustration will now turn to looking at other action. I understand that and have also reached that point myself. My preference is find people other than journalists to start poking them into a response. But it's so easy for the company that either they remain totally oblivious and indifferent to people or throw a small crumb to at least recognise people.
Remaining silent to enable the big deal or favourable election result I understand.
But it's so crazy at the moment that JJ posts last week Zaza has gone and B2O that he's got it all under control. Crazy that we aren't even sure if the person you are about to send a note too is even still running the company!
You don't need to send a letter. Any decent journalist can come on here and see that all is not well and harvest enough info to write a decent article. I'm astounded that has not happened anyway.
We are in an impossible situation. But what will happen if it carries on is if it's suppressed much longer the simmering anger will eventually explode. Time is running out. This board has shown it contains enough people with the skills and ability to cause the company plenty of trouble. I think we are close to the point where it won't take much to trigger that now and the company would be wise to take note and do what they said they would do in Jan 2019 and keep shareholders informed! The debate is one of timing -they don't deserve more time but do we hold it in a bit longer? The explosion and recriminations here will be huge if this goes on much longer with more of the same. But I'm not going to criticise looed if he sends a note as I think he is 100% justified in feeling that he wants to try something else. As I say my first port of call would be to pull at some US political levers and see what happens.
How difficult does this have to be? How many AIM companies do shareholders end up getting drawn into pondering their impact on cold war politics simply because no one will tell them what has happened to their investment.
The election and the lack of articles from Zaza and the GD for weeks is significant and suggests negotiations are taking place. As it is only 42 days until the election it seems logical to wait until after it has taken place. After waiting almost two years, why is it so important to act now, especially when it could prove detrimental with the forthcoming election and with negotiations probably taking place?
Bigun2 - I have the contact details for Cornerstone (lobby firm) and if someone can supply contact details for the US politicians I am happy to include.
I do think lobby firms represent their client rather than us, so not sure how effective that will be. Same with the US senators, they can only reply to people in their congressional district if I recall correctly, but worth a try. The Embassy / Ambassador might be more receptive to contact.
FRR and other companies don't need BB posters, they have media contacts in TV, radio and the press; PR companies like YJ and Flagstaff; they can use lobbying companies for access to congress and the senate; and there are share promoters like Malcolm Graham-Wood and Proactive Investor. It's the MM's, brokers and shorter's who are more likely to infiltrate the BB's.