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Ralph, I admit I am not 100% on sanctions rules etc, but I'd imagine they can pay off all their debt with the western banks etc, and the russian debt can be paid in ruble's from the russian mines. Maybe they have debt on the russian mines, with western banks, and will struggle to pay them with sanctions, so this will solve that problem.
I am really curious to see what happens with the sale of NA. They will not let the money go back to Russia and it would also seem strange to allow the money to be used to pay off debt as this would also inevitably end up with some cash heading back to Russia. If it was all put in escrow until the end of the war that would likely give us some protection as an asset freeze from Russian investors would result in that cash being frozen. Howeve lr given that the US business appear to be thriving why sell it off if if you can’t use the cash to support the rest of the business?
0.01% chance of Evraz agreeing a sale. Although, a LOI might be received by Xmas.
Who thinks , like me, there a greater than 50/50 chance that Evraz will agree a Sale of ENA by Christmas 2023
Have to agree VH. Truss etc.(clowns in Westminster)
call themselves ‘democratic’ / ‘capitalists’, LOL.
Nothing could be further from the truth. Destroying London stock market & always putting their lowly citizens/taxpayers through more hell .
I am pretty confident the sale of Evraz NA is the price OFSI extracted to give Evraz a licence to pay bond holders. I suspect all the proceeds will go towards paying off debt. OFSI is directing this process, creditors get looked after. Shareholders not so much
"WoW, its unlikely that its a cash problem."
Infinity - you must be reading a different trading report to me. I'm seeing a debt pile of $4b of which nearly half is short term and negative free cash flow of $59m. Frustrated capital projects, build up of slow moving stock that they are struggling to export, abandoned by bankers and professional services, difficulties with customers and suppliers, China property market slowdown, FX problems, high inflation, etc.
The cash pile has reduced by over $600m or 44%.
The devil is in the detail - you just have to scroll down past the headline numbers.
I fully agree with the dividend observation, would it even be legal to offer divis to some holders and not others? I do however believe the EVR will leave the UK at some stage. The sanctions and asset freezes, applying to everyone from a FTSE 100 company to a video journalist, none of whom are fighting in any wars, demonstrate that no-one is safe, no due process or rule of law is required. With that reality firmly established, I imagine plenty of investors and companies with overseas connections will be pulling out assets in the coming years, it's impossible to know who our government will decide are the "bad guys" next (although one guess does come to mind).
I’ve been away from internet for a few days and check in here to see the same twaddle being rolled out as if fact.
It doesn’t matter if you have shares in a nominee account or paper in terms of dividends. Dividends must be paid to all shares or none. It’s currently a moot point as Evr can’t issue a dividend.
Evr are not going to move to Dubai. Under the current situation it’s unlikely they could move at all.
No doubt we’ll be seeing the same twaddle being rolled out next week too.
WoW, its unlikely that its a cash problem. A sale will take a couple of month and the account receivable 1.75B$, RASP as cash cow and the fact that Putin confirmed 2 weeks ago that he will buy steel from inventory, should give confidence that we do not have a cash problem.
I think that its extremely unlikely with the sale of NA, that we ever going back on LSE trading. Mainly Russia and a bit in Kazakstan will left over as production locations. They will mainly sale into Asia, Middle East and Africa.
Based on the political situation, would it not be more logical that the NA trade is part of a bigger plan to unlock Evraz. I guess time will tell. But most likely we investors will be fine out with options announced in time
GLA
Yeah, no doubt they will use the funds to pay debts, keep the ruble's in Russia untill after the war.
Have you considered that the sale might well be needed for liquidity purposes given the bleak outlook and the difficulties exposed in the trading statement?
The only other scenario I see is America shafting Evr holders
I have carefully read the information relating to the sale of the NA assets and the involvement of the OFSI.
I really don’t see a scenario where evraz keep the funds of the sale and leave holders outside Russia with nothing.
My understanding is that this sale will either be used by dispose of western assets and this western holders, a total package of negotation by EVR with the OFSI, or if this isn’t the offer , the OFSI would blanket ban this sale.
I don’t see a scenario where it benefits the OFSI to allow EVR a sale and retain the funds .. effectively disappearing into Russia and the oligarch coffers, leaving non Russians with jack sheet .
Correct me if I’m wrong but the certs and sale seem to go hand in hand with an easy western exit route?
Jotom750
“Why do you and your boss continue to push these untruths?”
Infinity888 isn’t my boss. I left the telegram group as I can’t stand it. But I’ll agree when he occasionally makes a decent point.,
I accept there are two sides to the cert/nominee debate.
Thanks
"There is no point holding onto a tax wrapper when we may not get dividends but may get an option to sell or be bought out etc. we don’t even know what the level of dividend may be and for many the potential tax saving is not worth the inflexibility."
Why do you and your boss continue to push these untruths? I've posted that I was told by Interactive Investor that if dividends are paid to anyone, all get them, and that they will be placed into holders accounts in the normal way, and will be useable in the normal way. I accept that whilst sanctions are in place selling may not be possible, but if they did move I would not want to sell anyway as they are likely to move upward in price over a year or so.
This is all accademic now mostly though as dates have passed. It seems to me now just a child arguing in a playground.
I decided to take certs for my trading acc, but leave my ISA as is. Let's move on as this is no longer an issue.
GLASH
Of course you agree with him , he’s your leader.
A lot of talk about losing the tax wrapper for dividends but that doesn’t begin to compare with the amount of capital gains tax investors would be liable for if you were to sell your shares ,at for example £3,I would have a 5 figure tax liability if sold outside of an ISA.
Fully agree with infinity888 comment
“Sanction itself are an extreme grey zone and unclear what the Gov will do, how institutions (broker) react. In principle its everyones decision to move off the nominee or not. We are on a course of uncertainties and a range of possible outcomes. For me to be in control of any option is more worth than 20% capital gain tax. Its not about maximise the profit, to me is to be able to have the best option. Again only my personal view, worth 2 penny”
There is no point holding onto a tax wrapper when we may not get dividends but may get an option to sell or be bought out etc. we don’t even know what the level of dividend may be and for many the potential tax saving is not worth the inflexibility.
“ Judging people on typos or grammar mistakes isnt that honorable and nor saying anything about the person really.”
Well I haven’t done this.
They’re not typos though,it’s your understanding of the English language. That in it self is nothing to be ashamed of but if you post on a public board you might want to invest in your own ghost writer.
Judging people on typos or grammar mistakes isnt that honorable and nor saying anything about the person really. Churchill had 2 ghost writers as he was awful in grammar and writings. However he was the leader and legend he was. Is just an example.
Sanction itself are an extreme grey zone and unclear what the Gov will do, how institutions (broker) react. In principle its everyones decision to move off the nominee or not. We are on a course of uncertainties and a range of possible outcomes. For me to be in control of any option is more worth than 20% capital gain tax. Its not about maximise the profit, to me is to be able to have the best option. Again only my personal view, worth 2 penny
FWIW I don't think anything I have said here is a lie and you haven't disproved anything I have pulled you up on other than to mention the goings on in the infamous TG group.
I only pull you up on the things you say, which at times are very easily discredited.
I've got no beef with you and I'm sure your intentions are honourable. But you are giving people advice and swaying peoples actions when for me you don't seem to understand some very basic financials and doubtfully have any credentials that would give you the right to do so.
Having 500 members in a telegram group is all well and good but are any of them experts in this sort of thing? There's probably a small number of people who are. Otherwise is all you have is a big echo chamber.
WoW, you clearly dont know me. But its interesting how you and some other point the finger on me and speak out gossips and lies about me. We never met, never spoke. How much credibility you give such attitudes. You speak about credibility here?
"Now you want to know what they actual did… but you guys say i have no clue / have a nice sunday"
Infinity - I just struggle to take anything you say seriously after you told us a few weeks ago that loan repayments were the reason there was a disparity between RASP's supposedly decent gross profit and extremely poor net profit.
You lack any credibility.