We would love to hear your thoughts about our site and services, please take our survey here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Tibbs I like questions (not accusations) and I agree that we have members on this board who are qualified to answer some of these questions but as I say I think it is the way they are asked that counts on a board such as ours.
Cowichan,
$34 million I would suggest is what is owed by the refinery processing the miners bricks which aren't pure and are made up of gold and silver plus I would suggest other less precious by - product minerals.
I don't see this as abnormal but worth asking for clarification.
All of this “detail” does zero to the SP. The only that changes the SP is economic data. All of this speculation is irrelevant to the SP- the only time any of this detail impacts the SP is when it’s released as an RNS from the offices source, Centamin.
Hi Cowichan,
$34 millions could well be sales invoiced but not yet due as it does not even equate to a month of revenue and I would not be surprised in payment terms were 30 days. I make it 27 days worth of sales so not something that is likely to be a cause for concern. Clearly if there are overdue debtors in that then it is a different situation but it does not refer anywhere to overdue debtors/ bad debts.
I have looked back at the equivalent presentation for the year end but there is not a similar breakdown in any slide as far as I can see. The good news with that is they are now providing us with more transparency. If you think there is a problem it may be worth an email to Ross there CFO however I don't see anything that concerns me.
Spooning ton, Do you have a view?
Best wishes,
Prof
Hi Dasut,
I agree , but then all the more reason all the more reason for for those who posses the relevant information and professional experience to take the opportunity to explain to those who are asking the question in order to eliminate any future misconceptions.
I feel sure that I am not alone in being very grateful for your help and explanations on so may mining related issues that have indeed taught me a great deal
Thank you Prof, for your thoughts on this, I think that it can only be to the good that all questions are answered as fully as possible.
It would be good if the amounts owing to Centamin were indeed in the tens of thousands not millions. But if that were so , how does one explain the chart on page 10 here: https://www.centamin.com/media/2982/cey-1h23-results_presentation_final.pdf
It says "gold & silver sales debtor $34 million"
I take this to mean an outstanding 'accounts receivable' as it's listed as part of Centamin's liquidity - who is the debtor , other than the CBE ?
Thanks in advance for the replies.
And for the record - I'm not claiming to know any of the answers - I am asking the questions
I remember a time when none of us Centamin investors (former included) thought hedging or borrowing was never going to be part of the plan - but here we are immersed deep in both - what else, unexpected, will arise ?
Better to know in advance than be caught unaware. And yes, I agree with DASUT's warning a little bit of knowledge being dangerous - so let's not be stuck with only a little bit of knowledge. Whoever has the definitive numbers - please inform us all.
( obviously the $34 million above doesn't match any of the CBE related footnotes - and as I understand it 'accounts receivable' aren't included in 'cash or cash equivalents' - so I'm at a loss to reconcile ANY of the amounts )
As far back as 2015 the Centamin Sukari operation was being operated on what may be described as "Pyramid Scheme " principle using questionable mining methods and the management were glossing over the true facts in order to reel in the unsuspecting retail investors!
Had Andrew Pardey and the BOD had the professional integrity and the foresight to change their ways in 2015 and yet again in 2018 then the business wouldn't have been taken to the brink of a catastrophic disaster at Sukari, but instead they carried on with bad mining practice and deceit until the investable crack in the gloss forced their admission of guilt!
https://tinyurl.com/vf6vbr69
https://tinyurl.com/mr428ker
So when are the new management going to deliver the proof in the pudding as it were?
Quite agree Rebess, the new BOD claim to have brought about change for for the better, but then that depends on whether your a shareholder or a director!
I am puzzled why directors should have received any bonuses at all when they have delivered nothing as yet but a vastly increased AISC , a pathetic share price, a halved dividend and an increase in debt!
'Reason to be cheerful" , certainly not for shareholders!
https://tinyurl.com/29a2nfz4
'Everybody knows the captain lied the boat was leaking!"
https://tinyurl.com/u4yr5csx
Hi Tibbs,
I agree that there is an issue of trust in CEY however with AISC reported in the interims at $1228, and trending downwards, CEY is clearing around $700 with the current POG so is nicely cash generative, even after payment of the EMRA share.
Regarding the debt, we have not heard back from Cowichan today however given the point I made about the amounts shown in para 4.1 (page 38) being the latest position (i.e you don't add them together to get the current net debt) and Spoonington's clarification that in any case the numbers were thousands not millions, then it seems that the concerns raised by Cowichan were erroneous (happy to be corrected Cowichan it you think I am wrong).
You have, quite rightly in my opinion, castigated the previous management for not investing (spare LHDR, strip ratios...) The current management are doing the very opposite both in Sukari and Doropo. I appreciate that the money it takes to do this has to come from somewhere and applaud them for investing for a better tomorrow for CEY and its shareholders.
Best wishes,
Prof
Spoonington I thoroughly agree a case of a little bit of knowledge being dangerous.
Newer and potential buyers to proceed with caution and ask why despite the POG at around $1900 the CEY share price is more often than not scraping its butt along the bottom of the sick share bucket!
Centamin isn't that viable whilst the whilst the AISC continue at such excessively high levels and market trust at all time lows.
The slick presentations and yet more promises of "Good times coming" no longer impress, it's plain to see with institutions reducing their holdings and even the BOD not willing to back up their sales talk with some meaningful buys ,also now the suspicions of the increasing level of outstanding debt owed to the company by a cash strapped government that the this share ain't going to pick up anytime soon, if ever at all!
Tibbs
Egypt has no spare cash and neither has Centamin. - Centamin has gone from riches to rags thanks to the oversight of a brilliant management. - From hero to zero in a very short time. From $300 million to zilch. - Well done you mining - management experts. - Enjoy your excessive freebies. - You deserve them. - A lot more on their way next year.
Quantity of posts is far LESS important than quality of posts!
Hi Spoonington,
Oh agree, that's why Cowichan keeps asking questions so we can all be better informed about Centamin!
Over 2000 responses including some members of management to his posts on Linkedin!
Thought this might have some interest. - Indonesian Government backing Kinesis Gold payment system, at the time they are interested in joining BRICS.
https://twitter.com/KinesisMonetary/status/1694658524976972173/photo/1
I like to poke fun when it is called for Tibbs.
If you are in the mood for character advice, why don’t you try being less sanctimonious & better informed?
Tibbs
I recall the Egyptian Government were helpful in the provision of dynamite for controlled explosions and when troops gave security at the mine when it was needed. So not true that Egyptian Government did nothing. Tony
Hi Spoonington,
Thank you for your reply, I'm sure others on here although not as learned as you in professional corporate accountancy will never the less be happy to offer the other members the benefit of their particular area of professional expertise in a less patronising manner.
Hi Prof,
Thank you for your detailed input on this, you will recall in the earlier days of the mine Centamin made advance payments over and above what it was contractually obligated to do , partly to promote goodwill , not that the Egyptian government ever seemed to reciprocate with any goodwill! of any kind, quite the contrary!
Kind Regards
Tibbs
Hi Tornado,
Wouldn't be so confident about the findings of any company analysts , especially not the corporate ones who seem to have for whatever reason overlooked so much in the past!
Not just Centamin ,all the miners are less than truthful with shareholders when it suits!
Never does any harm people like Cowichan asking questions, keeps them on there toes and if they have nothing to hide then they will gladly answer the questions!
Likewise Paul!
Thanks for that. I'd still appreciate Cowichans thoughts on it and maybe a correction of his original posting?
I’ll let you in on a secret Paul, I have 35 years of experience as a chartered accountant to draw on, you can safely assume I know my way around a financial report :)
If the Egyptian Government/Central bank was running off with with $80M odd Centamin monies we would have every Centamin analyst all over it like the measles.