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Yep lots of rather desperate rhetoric being spouted here.
Cash burn is horrendous. There's still little light at the end of the very long tunnel the industry is having to get through imo. The cruise lines that have tried to dip their toes back into the water early have run into issues. The Hurtigurten debacle clearly not good. The current cruise of the TUI ship is being watched closely. A bunch of crew got false-positive test results which resulted in them being quarantined for around a day as far as I can determine. There are about 900 passengers on the ship which normally takes 2,500 so I find it hard to believe there's much, if any, profit there.
Very long way still to go for the whole industry and whilst Carnival continues to haemorrhage huge amounts of cash every month the SP here is surely only going to keep falling imo. Come back in a year's time.
I think you mean;
'have you any idea whatsoever the amount of Net profit these companies such as CCL USED TO make'
They are burning 1 BILLION dollars a month, and will run into serious liquidity issues in less than a month unless they seek further funding.
Last funding was done at 12.5%. Ouch.
That is a big chunk of interest to pay off.
CCL needs at least 30% of it's fleet to run just to survive, and that is not happening this year.
Daily cash burn is factored in the the over all price comparison, have you any idea whatsoever the amount of Net profit these companies such as CCL make ! They may have a huge cash burn at present but this already is being offset against partial re-starts and cost saving exercises throughout the pandemic period. The complete set up is simply too big to fail, we will see a 50% recovery in the share holdings within 6 months .
Of course the daily cash burn is an issue and a critical one. The important thing is to know that the company has sufficiently shored up it's finances to get through 12 to 18 months without cruising - that is why there is a lot of cash on the balance sheet. Any cruise restart, however small, will reduce this cash burn. So, if we are still in this predicament in 6 months time with little or no chance of sailing then there is a serious problem. I think that actually there will be quite a few ships sailing by next summer and so cash burn will be reduced and they may even be operating positive cashflow.
I suspect that there will be more shares issued to repay debts, hopefully with a higher share price attached - if shares are issued at face value, or close to, then there isn't a dilution per se.
In the words of BoE's Haldane, now is not the time for the economics of chicken licken....not for me anyway.
So the huge daily cash burn is not an issue in your eyes then?
"Maybe answer the question rather than trying to be funny,.,.." - ooops its catching !
I would answer your questions if they were relevant ! To be honest there's no substance to answer within your post whatsoever.
Maybe answer the question rather than trying to be funny,.,..
ooops the copy and pastor brigade are in again
'So it can take as long as it likes for cruising to re-start'
Really? This is a company with huge fixed (and variable!) costs that is haemorrhaging cash every day.
Every day without cruises is a body blow, and the airlines are in a similar position.
They simply have to have more paying customers to survive, and quickly.
And survive means being able to meet their debt obligations, not making a profit.
De-Rampers watch this space !!
Naturally CCL is a loved company so it can take as long as it likes for cruising to re-start but the bounces will continue.
Most 9f the cruise lines have cut back on the levels they had years ago, midnight buffets etc a long list of what use to be things, has it stopped people cruising.
Mr Magic the troll not invested and haunts a board he has no interest in
Saw another review from a passenger on the MSC Grandiosa. In regards to the aspect of passengers being forced to take and pay for cruise ship excursions if they want to get off the ship, they relate that:
"The packed lunch we were provided with in Rome was terrible also with just a ham role, an apple, water, cheese and nuts."
Can't say I am remotely surprised. Given the $billions cruise lines are losing I fully expect the levels of service and quality to plummet in regards to food. Imagine paying £1000s for a holiday and getting a ham roll and apple for your lunch !
It really doesn't look good TBH.
A cruise is a cruise. There is an expectation, a very reasonable expectation that it's a holiday that is a cut above the rest, a time of some decadence, extra quality, a little exuberance and something just a bit special. A ham roll and an apple is akin to packing your kids up for school. It's more Butlins than 4-5 star experience ! Sad times indeed.
Whatever they are peddling to try and get ships moving again, it doesn't to me appear to be "cruising". It's something very different, in much the same way that Corbyn and his rabble never represented the real Labour party but simply used the Labour banner.
If cruise lines want to offer something completely different that just happens to be on a ship, well good luck to them but don't try and price it at the levels of actual cruising because that's clearly just a rip off. Long long long way to go yet before cruising ever properly returns, if indeed it ever will.
@Aquaesulis
Thanks for the snippet of that cruise diary. Must say it all sounded fairly horrific. What a carry on! and if that's to be the "new normal" well I think a huge number of past cruisers will say "so long" and choose alternative holidays. There are so many unanswered questions arising from that review, I'd like to read the entire thing.
Could you provide a source link for it please
Thanks
Bingo! FFS that's enough to keep me off these glorified Covid19 incubators for life!
Talkingsense I think the main focus will be restoring confidence, so hopefully prices remain competitive. I do hope they look again at the pricing of excursions - either including one or two in the ticket price, or making them more appealing. I would not be able to afford to go on many excursions on top of the fare.
It will be interesting to see where the cruise lines go on pricing.
Pent up demand due to FCCs, more restrictions on board and I would presume lower capacity at this point and changed itineries.
Absolute juggling act for the pricing team (I don't envy them).
Fortunately there are people who are happy to sail with these restrictions. The cruise lines must take all precautions to minimise the possibility of a break out on board. Hopefully, we will start to see some normality by next summer when it is anticipated the majority of ships will sail.
Part 2. Excursions can only be official MSC ones and you can not leave the excursion or you will be refused boarding. No getting round this they are the current rules in place. If you go on an excursion in Malta you will be required to have another covid test on board to enter Italy. We were given certificates to say we hadn't been ashore in Malta.
The theatre requires you wear your masks and respect the distancing every other seat has a red cross on it. It doesn't matter if your all in a family or couple they don't want you sitting together. During evening shows this isnt really enforced but we played bingo in there 1 afternoon and we were asked to separate even though we were together. Lots questioned this rule but she said yes I know its silly but this is what we have been told they are the rules. Shows have to be booked due to the reduced numbers allowed in there.
We were given masks daily in our cabin 2 each daily. The room is done twice a day still.’
Must admit, if this is the new cruising experience I wont be going again. Pt 1
John
This is an extract from a rather long cruise review on Facebook from a recent MSC cruise.
We had to take out the MSC covid insurance at 18€ each this covered the cruise being cancelled if you tested positive or if you did while on board and had to go into quarantine. We also had to have a negative covid test no more than 72 hours before boarding. We boarded Sunday 13th so our test was done the Thursday afternoon. Everything very strict you have health forms also to print off , fill out and take with you as well as your covid results.
We were given a 10am registration time. Says on there that is your hour to arrive not before not after. We arrived at the port terminal. Our test results were asked for straight away. Told all ok procede to the terminal. We had papers check again and a temperature check. We walked 20 meters further again papers checked. In the terminal again papers checked this was for the health forms. Procede to the next part of the terminal where there were people waiting. We sat down obviously respecting the social distancing in place and the mandatorymask wearing. We saw small groups of people being moved me being curious wondered what was going on and saw people in hazmat suits. I took a photo to show my husband. Dont be like me and take a photo ?? you get told off. I deleted said photo instantly as I said was just to show my husband. Eventually we were told to go forward. This was where another covid test was done. A throat swab and nasal swab. We were then told to follow the signs which was to another room. Waiting there less than 2 mins moved on again. To another room, asked for papers again and told procede to check in. The British passports did make the them frown and ask a manager but everything was fine. We were given check in number 6. We had about 16 people in our waiting group. Boarding started at midday. Number one went on quickly. But number 2 didn't move. Number 3 were called. Then saw a lady pulled from number 2 and taken out a side door. She return 20 mins later. Group 2 boarded. Then jumped to group 5. Group number 4 looking around. 4 people were pulled out of this group. They didn't return. We were waiting it make you nervous. Then 2 young guys pull from our group didn't return and then we were called. We were on board by 1.30pm rooms were ready.
’As many of you are aware MSC are currently only available for Schengen residents. We are British but we live and are permanent residents in a Schengen country and have been for over 25 years. Before booking we got permission to travel and told what proof of residency to bring with us.
Masks are to be worn on board when moving about the ship. Once sitting at a bar, eating or lounging at the pool no masks needed. Masks were needed if you were participating in the activities and when dancing.
Mr Magic - Its not uncommon to find a 7 night cruise for £500 per week !! please do your research your facts are pie in the sky) in fact a two week Caribbean transatlantic for 14 nights including flights last year £600, you fail to add what cabin and grade you book my friend. However we will over look your limited knowledge of cruising to add all food is not included if you wish to go specialty dining and certain room services. We have a suit at a cost of anything between 10-14k all the food is still not included !! Look at the credit situation you will see most credit is amassed by under 30s !
Just as a footnote we are not talking about cars this is cruising.
Alyhels - " The cost of cruising is not as extreme as you make out - I suggest you DYOR - it is not uncommon to find a 7 night cruise for less than £1,000 pp, which including all food is damn good value"
It's not remotely a question of "value for money" that's an entirely different thing. It's about the amount of disposal income the younger generation has compared to the older generation. The total cost of motoring says that buying a very expensive sports car is less expense in the long run than your average Ford Mondeo repmobile because of less depreciation and so on. That doesn't mean youngsters can afford to go out and buy Porsches.
I'm well aware of the past demographics of cruises but that was then not now. We are now headed into the biggest recession since the 1930s although the media is not yet making any fuss about it but they will just as soon as the establishment allow them to. When they are ready. The direction cruise lines like Carnival/P&O were going in was flawed. Towering hulks like Iona were never a good idea for huge numbers of reasons. The notion of "rack 'em, pack 'em and stack 'em" in cabins for maximum profit has now utterly backfired. You're never going to be able to control killer viruses with such vast number of people in one confined space. Equally local ports are simply not going to want the risk of so many 1000s of passengers all descending on their towns and cities all at once. That was the case BEFORE Covid arrived but it is doubly so now. Beauty spots like Venice were already heavily into protests to keep cruise ships away but with the advent of Covid the opposition will be absolutely immense. Same for Dubrovnik, Barcelona and many other Med and Adriatic destinations.
The older people who will always be the stable bread and butter mostly prefer the smaller more traditional ships which they constantly flock to. Those might not be the ships with maximum profit for the cruise lines but if its a case of that or nothing then the smaller ships are going to have to prevail and the bigger ships are going to have to go. Were they to remove the small ships and leave only ships like Iona and Britannia then I can guarantee you that 1000s of loyal cruises will find alternative cruise lines and if none exist they will choose a different type of holiday altogether.
The young are going to be strapped for cash and will be looking for cheap flight holidays of a few hundred quid in resorts as soon as they are able to fly again.
Thrifty - Food to a point is free apart from specialty dining and room service at certain levels, the cost can spiral in these instances to the unaware newbie. I'm not saying we all use credit I certainly do not and never have but I do know in our office 4 younger newish cruisers who love to use the credit card !! I agree with the adult only as we knew it was most certainly the older cruisers but again this well may change.
I have to say I agree with a lot you have posted very balanced views indeed.
Alyhels, I absolutely agree (apart from the adult only ships, which naturally would have a slightly different demographic - even on those it isn't uncommon to find some middle aged parents with children aged 16-25).
We don't all use credit Alyhels - actually when you price it up, because food is free and often some OBC, it can be cheaper than a flight plus hotel beach holiday or city break.
We have done around 18-20 cruises and I can assure you the younger audience is over 50% on P&O, Celebrity, Royal Caribbean.
(Against everything I stand for) the young will use credit for payments. This is the way they have been educated as this will be their way forward. Again this is not Armageddon they will over come this albeit in a new normal.
@BernieBiker There is plenty of demand for cruising, including local cruising - hence Princess are doing round Britain cruises for next summer. You may be surprised, but there is demand out there.
@MrMagic The cost of cruising is not as extreme as you make out - I suggest you DYOR - it is not uncommon to find a 7 night cruise for less than £1,000 pp, which including all food is damn good value if you ask me. I don't know if you have cruised, but if you have, then perhaps not on a P&O family friendly ship? anyone who has been on a family friendly ship will find a diverse age range, not just retirees.
@Alyhels a number of these destinations rely so heavily on the Cruise industry, I agree they will have no choice. Furthermore, the big brands are building efficient and clean ships - eg Iona, the new ship in the P&O fleet is LNG.
@MrMagic in response to your: hrifty - "It isn't clear from the article, the circumstances surrounding the outbreak, or whether any of the crew are displaying any symptoms"
lols wat?!
From the article:
"A DOZEN CREW MEMBERS on the first cruise ship to dock in Greece after the coronavirus lockdown have tested positive for the virus."
The article says the crew members have tested positive - it does not say that they are displaying symptoms. It also says nothing about steps taken and whether safety protocols were being followed. This will surely be followed up quickly by RCL, the joint operator with TUI.