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..2022 is unverifiable and could be a lie along with all other lies on other boards imho
"once Labour take the reins credibility will return, BT will be a keystone for unlocking economic growth."
Sorry SKR but I find that statement astonishing and unbelievable.
At least the Tories have the excuse of a very nasty war in Ukraine and a global pandemic for the economy being a mess. Agreed its a mess. But Brown could not balance the books in good times. Selling half our gold at its cheapest price for decades. Destroying company pension schemes, mine included. letting council tax run riot. Giving pensioners a 89p a week rise, remember that? leaving the country near bankrupt. ( He had a good teacher though. Denis Healey did the same in the 70`s I think) Labour being credible, unlocking economic growth? I think not. Not a Jack Polance.
I will not vote Tory or Labour this time. If Starmer and Sunak are the best we can do then we are in trouble.
Savage stated the following
27 Mar 2024 12:36
Afternoon Mandy, sadly I've no £60k to place trades, if only!... I am but a tiny spec/amoeba, smaller even than a wee minnow in this vast ocean of traders...
I place infinitesimally small stakes (£0.5-£1.5k tranches) where I spot there may some gains to be had, by placing long trades (well mid-term really), using my salary income, in a desperate attempt to bolster my savings pot towards our house deposit (my wife also trades too)!
So far though we've been consistently beating bond/savings accounts by a considerable margin with ~7-20% returns from our positions (with just a couple of losses thus far). I began trading in late Dec 22
Key point is' with just a couple of losses thus far'
But in the past week, he said 'AimMaster2018 - Good Q... I actually haven't yet made a loss (trading since Dec 2022)'
Could you clarify please imho
Not interested in what savage says or has said. Can we just move on and talk about something more enlightening
Well said Abject , can we now have a debate on "ramping" please . For a start what the hell does it mean , is it some kind of sexual act , mandy used to use the word. So i figured it was a bad thing.
OK i think I've found the answer to my quest
Ramping
The practice of trying to boost the price of a share and the company behind it by buying the securities in the market with the object of raising demand. If the price rises, the ramper may be able to make a quick profit by selling. This behaviour amounts to market abuse and is illegal.
Want to see an example of ramping gone wild, try the bitcoin forum on Reddit.
AimMaster2018 - I first began buying BT early 2023, sold entire holding for profit summer 2023... began buying again in Autum/winter 2023 and I've kept buying up more this Spring. Max price I've paid for any of the tranches is £1.30. But that's the most info I'm willing to share... as I previously said I have been trading since Dec 2022 and yep, so far I've not yet made a loss but I'm very grounded and know that is just a matter of time... biggest gains I've netted have been from trading TUI, Currys & BT. Plus a number of other gains too. For everyone else on here AimMaster2018 is bitter because I was considering investing in Capita (CPI) but...I've been frank in my language on the CPI chat board that after examining the financials, the macro economics and risk v potential reward - I see far better value in BT stock right now... and that is where I've kept on putting my money. I think BT is going to be shorted heavily in immediate future, although I am in for the mid-long term. DYOR.
Erm…No lol.
C-….must try harder!
Fleccy my holding is approaching yours in Bt
And I have probably 1/3 your holding in vod.
In one sense I appreciate your optimism over both.
In another your over extending patience , lack of criticism and low expectations of both companies and their management annoys me.
Yes, low prices, divi reinvestment is my approach too, but I’d rather we see a price hike that prevents me reinvesting , and goes some way to approaching a sell price. Selling provides flexibility for future moves into under valued companies. It would be better for Bt and vod to approach a fair value , and move, than compound forever
The permanent topping up, reinvesting dividends cycle only works if BT shares recover value, not all shares do.
Also, if someone makes a cash bid, your share will be taken from you at the accepted offer price (unlikely here, HMG are unlikely to allow it), which could still be way less than you now somewhat lower (due to topping up) than your new avg price.
As a strategy it is a bad one, and an unintentional one. Fact is, no one would enter a share with a strategy that states they'll keep buying more as the value plummets and hope that some future recovery saves them.
Abject there's some contradiction in your post, on the one hand you state that my "lack of criticism and low expectations of both companies and their management annoys" you, and on the other hand you state "Fleccy my holding is approaching yours in Bt And I have probably 1/3 your holding in vod"; You either believe the companies are undervalued, or you don't, and if you don't believe the companies share prices will eventually recover to fair value, why invest there at all? If you read through my previous thread, about the compounding effect of reinvesting dividends when the share price drop's, you'll get some understanding of my thought processes. I used to work in Telecoms, so I have a bias toward investing in the sector, but my reasoning for investing in BT and Vodafone is because I believe they're cheap safe stocks, and I have unlimited patience when it comes to investing as long as I'm receiving dividends.
IDMB if I had a crystal ball all my stock purchases would be timed to perfection, I'd consistently buy at the bottom and sell at the top, but I haven't got some way of predicting the future unfortunately. Obviously when I first invested in Vodafone and BT I had no idea the prices would fall so low, but we are where we are so I play the hand I've been dealt. I've now brought my averages down to low enough levels to mitigate any risk of losing money in the event of a takeover, in fact if BT or Vod should become takeover target's I'll make a good profit on them.
John Maynard Keynes said that markets can stay irrational for longer than you can stay solvent, fortunately I can stay solvent longer than the market can remain irrational.
"John Maynard Keynes said that markets can stay irrational for longer than you can stay solvent, fortunately I can stay solvent longer than the market can remain irrational."
Well I'm also 'in' and with a substantial holding. I am also a former BT employee (with Global Services), and yes I believe that at current levels they offer really good value.
But more importantly to me, the rest of the market has risen strongly and I have decided to sell and seek a bargain and one that is still currently paying quite a high yield. I am aware of the risks, but the potential reward seems well worth it.
"But more importantly to me, the rest of the market has risen strongly and I have decided to sell and seek a bargain and one that is still currently paying quite a high yield. I am aware of the risks, but the potential reward seems well worth it"
Good luck with your choice, we should all do what's right for us. We're currently sitting on a £24,000 paper gain on our Lloyds shares, and I still consider them undervalued with a fair value over 70p, so I'll just watch and wait.
Well, I sold my HSBA shares...
1. They hit a year high (I almost always sell).
2. I only bought them after the circa 10% drop that happened in Feb.
https://www.ft.com/content/05177d82-ac3b-4108-a958-e49bd482adcd
Started at under 600p, managed to collect the full year dividend and later sold them for 660p.
I sold way too early (now 700p)......fortunately BT has pretty much held at the price I paid those few weeks ago.
Fleccy
Re your Keynes quote.....
It reminded me regards the Nikkei Index. It hit a high in October of 1989...........it took circa 35 years to make a new high, in January of 2024.
I seem to recall BT once hit a high of over £10, during the dot.com boom. Mind you that price was irrational.
Fair enough Fleccy thanks for reply .
You say you can wait out an irrational market , I can too.
What price do you deem rational for you to sell at?
Excellent question Abject - That is the $64000 question
What BT SP would you cash out at? (only answers above £1 accepted)
Me, I’d start to cash out at circa 130p, and be all out at circa 150p.
One is the most recent high, the other is the year high.
I think around £3 would be a fair valuation for BT once the current capex cycle ends and the cost savings kick in, showing up as an increase in the bottom line Net Profit. I don't see BT as a revenue growth play due to their incumbent status, but BT has massive potential for savings through building closures, network transformation and staff reductions. To put things into perspective, BT's yearly Capex spend at around £5 Billion is more than ARM Holding's total yearly revenue, ARM has a market cap of $113.23 Billion and BT's market cap is around £10.5 Billion. Once the current capex cycle ends, BT will have the largest national FTTP and 5G network's, and enough firepower to reduce debt should it choose to. It's blindingly obvious to me that the market is undervaluing BT's assets, so I have no problem topping up as dividend cash becomes available. Whether or not ARM has the potential grow revenue and justify it's large P/E ratio remains to be seen, but it's anyone's guess as to why Telecom stocks are being hammered down to historically low valuations; My theory is that big players are depressing Telecom stock valuations, to push out retail and quietly mop up stock behind the scenes.
Rolls Royce is a good example of how the market can move prices when they want to, from 39p in Oct 2020 to around 423p today. Rolls Royce rerating is even more miraculous when you consider there were 1,930,995,313 total voting rights in Dec 2019 and 8,416,696,989 today and they dropped the dividend and still have debt. If Rolls Royce isn't an example of big market players gaming stock valuations I don't know what is, since it's the only way I can make sense of the disparity in valuations between different stocks and sectors.
Im no highfalutin , fancy dandy wheeler dealer like many on here. The shares i own are from BT employee share saving schemes plus the occasional company freebie . Holding a modest amount of shares is more of a hobby for me , but its nice to hear the thoughts of the real players (obviously that doesn't include Mandy)
So the share price i prey for is (((((( £2.74))))))) As this would give me a cool £100,000 , to add to my pension fund.
Alas we can only dream
Depending on the yield I’m getting at £3 a share I may keep holding.
I presume if the share price is £3, it’s because the balance sheet has much improved and we are getting more than the current lacklustre 7.7p a year.
Can only hope and dream of the 15p a year dividends again one day
No mention of Patrick Drahi increasing his stake? Any thoughts?
RE: Drahi
Given debt issues with his other companies, it is IMHO unlikely that he will buy more BT shares, also he is very close to the limit he can buy without being forced to make an offer (or reduce stake) for BT.
Market seems to think it's more likely that he will reduce stake, but he states otherwise.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-13304289/Debt-ridden-Patrick-Drahi-wont-hang-BT.html
For information that limit I mentioned is 30%