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Like i made clear yesterday - i own a CMC that is submitting against Amigo currently. Anyone saying that 70m is top end of compensation claims is wrong, i'm sorry but you're underestimating the level of compensation needed to clean the loan book.
Like i said yesterday happy to answer any questions, not here to argue, i've purchased shares as a back up if new CEO decides to battle with FOS.
Thanks Blindinvestor.. Glad someone here can actually add something constructive. Do you think FOC is the kind of organisation to come to a compromise? Do you see much material difference between this and what happened to Wonga?
What percentage of claims are being upheld? Are you seeing more resistance to the claims recently?
Blind that doesn’t make sense, as CMC’s if successful would bankrupt the company so if correct you’d be throwing your money away
I’ll get on computer to answer these questions
Thegambler
Other companies / websites have very slack advertising, inviting everyone who has ever had an Amigo loan to submit a claim, i read lots of cases on Debtcamel etc where i can see people just submitting because a friend did.
I target "top up loans" these are what the FOS seemed to hate the most, people borrowing £500 then topping up to £8k 3 months later. So my uphold rate will be higher than others.
However i can say since May 42% have been upheld in the clients favour and those rejected are sent to the FOS for review (these we have had no replies to yet due to backlog / covid etc) but according to their own stats they uphold guarantor loans at 90% which means overall we will be landing in the 80% win area.
epg200 - regarding Wonga
The key difference is Amigos loan book.
£35m cost and rising
But this isnt £35m cash out the bank, it will include loans still being repaid being reduced or cleared etc, it will include bringing a system to deal with complaints and hiring outside help to manage it.
Also it is not clear how much of that £35m has already been spent.
But the cost could rise to £80m in the new announcement and look more like £30m redress and £45m from the loan book with £5m misc.
Wonga at the start of their downfall had already written £100ms of debt off, and those same people then put in claims, so the scales tipped so much faster.
Beevorma - i believe they have more chance of battling the FOS with new CEO / Owner than circumming to these claims in the short term.
Shezer - our average refund is around £4k as i said previously said we try and target older customers with top ups for a few reasons.
8% compound really increases the claim
Top up loans are hated by the FOS
We don't want someone with a current balance at Amigo otherwise it is reduced / written off and we don't get paid.
So our customers on average have 2.2 loans with amigo over a lifetime and Amigo are paying out older claims regardless of timeframes.
Thanks for the input Blind. i have a few Qs
Do you think the country would be better off with or without Amigo around, is it likley that they would go to higher rate alternatives and lenders?
Is the interest rate the problem? would a lower rate help? or are you simply screwed loaning to this sector at whatever rate ?
Did most of the clients actually need to loan the money or is it just being spent on trendy consumable junk?
How many people lie on the loan application forms?
Hillman1987 - 3 outcomes
Agree new lending criteria thats bomb proof, pay few £100m in compensation / loan book write offs and come out the other end clean and long term profitable.
Battle FOS, this is all or nothing, by time its resolved business has either a 100% solid loan book or a 100% poison loan book.
Do a wonga and keep paying out and looking the other way till the claims outweigh liquidity
My £25k is insurance against an FOS battle, short term this would give a huge bounce to the share price but if they won we would see £1 + share price again. If they loss i'd make pennies on the £ with the claims.
What everyone must understand is the FOS can't see another Wonga, WDA etc where clients get 4p on the pound for a claim, it is in everyone interest to allow amigo to trade.
itsagame -
I like amigos business model, i think it is a product / service that is needed, there will be a large group of people left out the credit world if they / lenders like them were regulated out the market.
i don't think the interest rate is the issue as other much smaller guarantor lenders battle these claims and win, but their process is lending 10ks a month not millions. treating the client like they were getting a mortgage more than a loan.
i dont have data on reason for loan, this isnt needed for the claim, unless it was to clear other debts / showing a pattern of borrowing and skipping.
as for the lying element, i do read debtcamel and think WTF, why do you deserve money back, like i said i don't think im a cowboy submitting everything, our claims are very much borrowed small amount, topped up shortly after with amounts 2-20x the original even after missing payments on the first.
thank you for the reply, i appreciate you taking the time to give us a small peak in to the alternative side of the coin.
Blindinvestor
Great to hear someone on here talking sense, your spot on I believe Amigo will take issue with the FCO, FCA position once the new CEO is in place.
If there is wrong doing Amigo will put it right but fight any chancers.
is it common to see people consolidate multiple higher rate pay day loans from other lenders to one amigo loan at a lower rate and amigo providing them an overall lower monthly payment & lower total across the term ?
would you have anything against Amigo focusing more on this type for lending?
Blind investor. When you first started posting what you did I though oh here we go deramper alert! I’m very pleased to be wrong. Knowledgable of the sector and as others have said thanks for the insight.
Thanks MANU17 and Mark
itisagame - i'd say almost all Amigo clients have either taken every payday loan they could get hands on or have a lot of outstanding CC debt etc.
I personally don't take any issue with Amigo - i'm lucky enough to be in a situation where i could get relatively cheap leads that convert well with a high return.
But I think you’d agree the comparisons with Wonga are an unfair comparison. On both the lending front and the investment front!
Hillman when can we expect your tr1 ...... cant be far away now :D
completely agree.
The board / infighting here has added to this situation IMHO
Hay if a system is in place and you can make a buck from it then its not your fault for going with the system, honestly good luck to you, if you and many others didnt systems would never change. And its better for Amigo to sort it once and for all sooner then later.
people always need more money.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/siobhan-lee-96b9a36/ has dealt with many large firms complaints handling including TSB/Barclays/HSBC and since taking control of Amigo there seems to be a system in place.
If JB had been selling quietly and slowley the price would be 30p+, this is the bigger issue as far as the days share price goes.
But its one that will be resolved one way or another by the middle of September, the FOS is a longer term issue, and i guess at 49% its priced in to the loans to a point as an overall average.
Anybody with a bit of common sense would know that there is no way Amigo are going to challenge FOS. Can you imagine what their claim would be, Amigo know more about complaints than the FOS. Can assure you that the FCA deem the FOS as specialists in this field and therefore, any such stance against the FOS will not be seen in a positive light or work well for Amigos interests imo.