We would love to hear your thoughts about our site and services, please take our survey here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Dave. I will ask you again, If this company is ****ed, why would you buy if reaches the 60's.
Folks on here argue with black and white narritive in the accounts.... and use all sorts of their 'own analysis' to counter it. There is no world in which these are good results. A strong sell.
"Vodafone's results are a checklist of everything bad about a company. It has swung to a loss-making position, revenue is down, the dividend is not growing and there is negative free cash flow," AJ Bell analyst Russ Mould commented.
Not quite as simple as that.
Of the £2b of free cash outflow the working capital was negative £2.4b (eg the accounts payable reduced more than the account receivable). It looks to be a cyclical thing to some extent. EG last year H1 the working capital was negative £3.4b but by the full year results it was £0.3b positive, so H2 was £3.7b positive.
If you exclude this timing* issue, then the FCF before dividend would have been £1.4b positive vs £1.2b dividends. So its not the dividends per say that added to the net debt, but the working capital movement of £3.4b, the other cashflow items net off. Its all in the messaging I guess and I would have positioned it was above rather than the way they did.
* Im assuming its just timing as thats what last years accounts indicate. If its not timing then thats a worry as it means we are still paying our suppliers on time but our customers are taking longer to pay us. Which would be a separate worry
Diredct quote: "Net debt increased by ?2.9 billion to ?36.2 billion (?33.4 billion as at 31 March 2023). This was primarily driven by the free cash outflow of ?2.0 billion and equity dividends of ?1.2 billion." I knew I read this. People dont understand how BAD these results are!!!!!!!!!
I posted links to these the other day, but no one seemed interested.
The chart gives a nice picture showing the relationship between entries associated with Free Cash Flow and Net Debt.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSNxkKmgR2PzSL1NH5uvhJAIl6TyUm-PpH2hChEFWELeB8mLB-V562E7qRdDL0lOSa8NyAUBbokBjVp/pubchart?oid=325944045&format=interactive
If you select the cash flow tab (Top Left) in the link below it shows the figures feeding into the chart.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSNxkKmgR2PzSL1NH5uvhJAIl6TyUm-PpH2hChEFWELeB8mLB-V562E7qRdDL0lOSa8NyAUBbokBjVp/pubhtml
To add to my last post, personally I would have dropped the dividend to keep Net Debt down, but I don't know what they know.
Nuri you must be looking at a different set of figures to me, the full year interest paid and received is around €1 Billion to €1.5 Billion, so around the level of half the full year dividend. I'd agree with you if Vodafone couldn't pay off or refinance debt as it becomes due, but that isn't the case. The only real question is the sustainability of the dividend, which is dependent on Vodafone ensuring FCF, averaged over a number of years, exceeds dividend payouts and other expenses separately adding to the Net Debt.
Cracking results for the shorter.
We’ll done MDV
That dividend yield will be well into the teens shortly
Totally unsustainable
Conference call not gone down too well.
I've been out for a while. I'm waiting for an entry of 71.25 or less. Looks very likely that we'll see that quite soon
Jed, taxes are worked out before dividend payments. Paying more divs does not reduce profit and therefore tax.
That is why as an individual you pay little tax on divs if you are below the higher rate threshold as it is deemed the div has already been taxed within the company at corporation tax rates.
Fleccy - read the results - debt up two billion - paying the dividend was one of the two stated reasons. I cannot believe investors dont read these fundamnental things. I was invested in vod many times. Never made a loss - not disgruntled - but just really surprised how positive people are with such a poor set of results as this. Dont be surprised when its 50 pence or below. The dividend is not covered; the debt is not sustainable; the growth prospects are dire but we just see more of the same from Vod. this is a junk status company.
Fleccy
A company like Telefonica has managed successfully to get the middle classes in Spain to pay more for their products than what they really need to.... they give them more free data that they know that they will actually use, and fool them into thinking they need faster speeds when they do not need it at all.....
Recently they have given customer free tablets,phones, tvs, etc by getting their customers to lock into 4 year commitments ... paying back more than the value of the phone/tablet etc if you then go elsewhere within 4 years
" maintained debt even when they could have wiped it out "
Fleccy
I suspect the debt market would not be happy if they indeed wiped out debt.... VOD is a key provider of earnings for lenders , who are more than happy to re-issue new bonds as old ones mature...
I suspect VOD has to keep debt in order to be able to turn to lenders when they need them......part of the "relationship" between debtor and lender ..I suspect
Problem here is that VOD has a mixed bag of assets...some of which dont give a decent ROCE and are in affect being subsidised by the better performing assets ....
Spain shows that they just cannot compete sufficiently in highly competitive markets , where the customer cannot really distinguish the product .... and customer still expect very good service even if they only want to pay low-cost monthly contracts
It would appear that way Poker, it isn't something I'd do as an individual as I don't like debt. Vodafone have always had high levels of debt and maintained debt even when they could have wiped it out, like the sale of their stake in Verizon Wireless. I assume they have a plan, so it'll be interesting to watch it play out.
regretting lol, when the div comes they will drop by that amount taking them into the 60s anyway. no div should be paid when a company such as vod is doing so bad. you must be i tiny player to make such bull**** remarks
" but the Dividends are paid for out of banked cash rather than the preceding period's Cash Flow, at least on paper."
well..... then it is not really a performance Dividend ....it is a return to shareholders of a cash asset ... which does not improve the company value at all.... a fool´s game ..in my opinion
All money to pay divi's etc from borrowing and everything else are taken out to off-set any profits to show a negative or loss, they don't pay taxes on any loss.
So almost equiv to making a profit and pay no Divi.
I think I would rather see a loss and still pay Divi's.
Ah Dave....you'll regret selling...never mind, we'll no doubt continue to hear your bitter ramblings
Nice dividend...onwards and upwards
Vodafone's a complex beast, it's like a Hedge fund running a mix of telecom companies. The dividends are accounted for separately and don't come out of Free Cash Flow; The FCF and Dividends both feed into the Net Debt figure, but the Dividends are paid for out of banked cash rather than the preceding period's Cash Flow, at least on paper. As Vodafone sell off bits and pieces you'd expect revenue to drop with disposals, but the impact on EBITDA would also depend on reductions in lease liabilities/interest and other expenses that end with the disposals. What Vodafone need to do, as revenue reduces, is maintain EBITDA as much as possible and reduce capex along with any other expenses feeding into the FCF figure. In order to reduce Net Debt, the FCF needs to exceed the Dividend payouts plus any other added expenses accounted for separately to FCF, otherwise Net Debt will keep growing.
Clearly European growth is going to be limited going forward, with Vodafone rethinking and reorganising their European/UK businesses in response. The biggest growth opportunities will be away from Europe.
It's an almost philosophical explanantion. If you have paid out 50bn in div, but are borrowing 50bn in bonds, where did the money for the divs come from?
Div payments get booked to accumulated loss/profit on the blanace sheet. Accumulated losses are 114bn. They have never been able to pay a div without raising capital to pay it.
Dont listen to Nuri and Mole.
The clearly dont understand the results and/or are trying to mislead readers.
Nuri has already admitted he will never be invested in VOD. What is he doing here then on this board?
Likely a disgruntled ex-employee.
glad i sold most of my share even with massive lost. i'll buy back mid 60s. this company is ****ed if the merger with 3 gets rejected