Member Info for ViciousHippo

Have you read and understood what it says? It says FTSE Russell have removed the shares from all indices.

Oh no, CALAMITY!

Hmmm maybe do a bit of research first. Start with what FTSE Russell is, and what they do, for a start. Google them. Then come back and apologise for wasting everyones time

Putin confiscating the assets is something I have thought about as well. However Abramovich would be very unhappy about it, unless Putin cut him a deal. However if such a deal ever came to light Abramovich would be in hot water around the globe. Boiling water in fact. Without a deal I think Abramovich would use a spare 100 million or so to find a way to get Putin arrested So I dont think Putin would risk that and therefore in my mind it is a small risk.

Another month. Or two...

Infinity - while Evraz has not been sanctioned it is intimately connected with sanctions on RA. His sanctions are based on his shareholding in Evraz which OFSI allege has provided resources/ goods that could contribute to the destabilising Ukraine. That is against the Russia Sanction Regulations of 2019 (ie already in force before the war started). This allegation will have to be investigated by the FCA before Evraz can go back to normal.

The company denies the allegations, and indeed the directors (all of them includidng the ones who have resigned) could be jailed for up to 12 months if they have broken these regulations. I doubt very much that they have, but I am sure the FCA will need this to be proven beyond doubt before Evraz is allowed back.

"Negotiations. 4th round. On peace, ceasefire, immediate withdrawal of troops & security guarantees. Hard discussion," Ukrainian negotiator Mykhailo Podolyak said online.

Will Putin block it at the last? He enjoys being contrary and unpredictable. He is a self gratificationist.f If he does I actually think the Oligarchs will have him killed. One has already put up a $1m bounty on Putin!!

I agree sanctions will remain in place. Either UK wants regime change or they want to get rid of the reputation of London being the capital of money laundering. Or both.

I suspect the LSE would rather not have Evraz any longer, due to the negative publicity. We might be invited to delist. I don't know if we can be forced to. The exception would be if it can be shown that RA has effective control over the company. Then evraz itself is subject to sanction and then it's a completely different problem.

I reckon UK government is set on sanctions against the oligarchs, whatever happens with the war. RA will have to resort to judicial review.

What protests? If they are not in Russia they are an irrelevance.

Biden and Johnson have both said Nato will not intervene directly. That brings Zelensky kicking and screaminig to the negotiating table, which has now been confirmed in his statement that negotiators have moved on from issuing ultimatums and are now talking specifics. Putin is making similar noises. The current Russian push towards Kiev is to strengthen his negotiating hand. But a deal will probably be done, maybe even this weekend, but if not, probably within a week.

So where does that leave us? Sanctions may be kept in place for the oligarchs. I get the sense the west see that as their personal victory.

Sanctions for Russian oil and steel will probabbly be lifted within a month, because it is causing havoc!

Evraz will probably be cleared of any wrongdoing once the FCA has worked out a way for RA's shares to be safely locked away. Then it is business as usual. Could take a month?

What about RA and the other major shareholders, what are they going to do? That will be the next instalment. As majority shareholders, in theory they can do anything, but sanctions remove their control. They arent just going to take that lying down. This is going to be a very long saga indeed.

I agree Obsolete, and staying on the LSE is preferable, but if the media and governmetn make that impossible, then we need to go somewhere else. If not India, then Shanghai.

The company still exists whether or not it is listed on the LSE. It needs no approval from the world. We are shareholders in a real company with real assets. If we are not listed, buying and selling shares is difficult, so the company would have to list elsewhere, eg Shanghai/ Mumbai. They will be delighted. They dont have anti Russian bias like the west has had since WWII and from which they cannot move on. While Putin is a warmongering moron, the RoW can see NATO expanding into 13 countries on Russia's border has been provocative. And it's not like WE never bomb and invade countries to effect regime change now is it? The RoW will be viewing this conflict completely differently to the western media, and will be happy to do business with Russian steel, and get a big copmany as a new client on their stock exchange. I think what Putin is doing is appaling, but I also think the things we have done in the not so distant past is appaling too. I hate warmongers, but that is no reason to shaft ordinary Russians, or indeed a mining company and its investors. The rule of law should apply in the UK, but it seems the government has started making up accusations in order justify their political desires. This is a shocking undermining of what the UK stands for.

I mean specifically listing on Mumbai Stock Exchange. If UK is unfriendly but India is not, why not move out shares there? No sanctions, huge market, nearer some of the southern Russian mines too. Middle finger to the UK and the Ruskiphobia, move on to somewhere welcoming. We can trade the Indian stock market from here I am sure.

If Evraz gets delisted or decides to delist, maybe a move to Delhi... ?

March 12 (Reuters) - Russia urged India to deepen its investments in the sanction-hit country's oil and gas sector, and is keen on expanding the sales networks of Russian companies in Asia's third-largest economy.

Russia's economy faces its deepest crisis since the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, as the West imposes severe sanctions over Moscow's invasion of Ukraine.

Some western allies have encouraged India to condemn Russia's actions in Ukraine, after New Delhi abstained from voting against Moscow, a long-standing arms supplier, at the United Nations.

The UK government cannot ride roughshod with flimsy accusations. They can try, but courts often overturn government actions. That's why we have the judiciary - to uphold the law, not to support the government of the day. Its a safety net against just this kind of abuse of power.

Chelsea is a populist cause.

Evraz is actually used by the government as "evidence" to sanction RA so they would not be able to backtrack on that. RA needs to seek judicial review in order to clear his name (and that of Evraz) from the flimsy governmemt accusations. Hopefully he has his lawyers working on it.

You may have to rethink receipt of dividends, because

1) under the sanctions against RA the company cannot pay him any dividends
2) company law requires all shareholders to get their fair share of dividends.

Therefore it would seem an impossibility for the company to pay dividends while RA is sanctioned. Having said that, the legalities surrounding this interaction between company law and sanctions regulations is probably very complex. I'm sure there are many other complexities involving requirements of the LSE and FCA rules as well. I'm sure lawyers are working overtime this weekend on behalf of us trying to work it all out

The UK government appears to have a flimsy case that will not stand up in court. However they also appear to have an agenda against RA personally, so RA's shareholding in Evraz is going to be a continuing obstacle unless and until RA gets a judicial review that exonerates him, and by implication Evraz. There will be continuing reputations damage to Evraz here in the UK though. The government have really sabotaged Evraz, just to have a pop at RA.

The aim of all these sanctions on Russia is to effect regime change by removing Putin. This will only happen if the people rise up in face of economic hardship. However there are no signs of that happening. Ordinary Russians have got used to the West ruining their lives through sanctions. We've been doing it for years. In any case why do we think that regime change will solve any problem. There are very few instances where 1) regime change has been achieved and 2) where that has actually led to a better regime.

The government is going to cause a world recession and its going to cost us all another miserable 2 years, with very little chance of success in getting rid of Putin. Basically their reward for sanctions is "a tiny chance we can get rid of Putin, but to get anyone better it must come through democracy by the people, and the Russians might finally rise up" and the risk is "guaranteed misery of high energy prices and price rises for all commodities, loss of trading income from Russia, and almost certainly a global recession". That doesn't sound like a good risk/ reward ratio to me.

Thoughts? Am I being pessimistic about the effectiveness of sanctions?

The allegations against Abramovich, which form the basis for him being sanctioned, appear very flimsy. Abamovich has in the past already won a libel case against him over allegations he purchased Chelsea at the command of Putin. The next step will be for Abramovich to seek judicial review. The courts require a proper level of evidence. I highly suspect the UK government will lose that case from what we've seen. It may be that sanctioning Abramovich - even for a short time - is politically expedient in order to show the people that the government is "doing something". This is a saga that will go on and on!