RE: Ceres European Funding - Huge News16 Feb 2023 03:23
SimonV, "town gas" was coal gas (a c50:50 mix of carbon monoxide and hydrogen as I understand). I'm not disputing that hydrogen can be used in a domestic environment but if we are to use 100% hydrogen then, by my reckoning, we are either going to have to deliver it into homes at c3x existing pressure (to get the equivalent amount of energy per cubic metre) or heat our homes and water about 3x more slowly than we currently do (essentially you need a given amount of energy to heat a given amount of water over a given period of time and, because heat dissipates over time, the longer it takes the more likely you are to need more energy; at least that's my understanding). Also, lets not forget that existing gas appliances may have to be converted/replaced (they had to be converted/replaced when we converted from town gas to natural gas and it's possible/probable that a similar kinf of conversion/replacemnt process might be needed if we convert to 100% hydrogen). That's ignoring the fact that hydrogen as a fuel has had a chequered history and that any explosions would only feed the existing negative connotations.
Savvy, Are you suggesting that we should transport and store hydrogen gas to convert it to electricity to charge EVs? Yes, it's feasible but have you actually sat down and considered the implications? Elon Musk once (basically) said that hydrogen-powered vehicles were 3x less efficient than EVs (a fact, that as far as I am aware, has never been disputed) i.e. it took about 3x the amount of electricity for a hydrogen-powered vehicle to travel one mile as it did an EV. Green hydrogen is created by electrolysing one of the most stable molecules on the planet (water); it takes a "humungous" amount of electricity to create hydrogen, let alone liquefy and store it until needed. Now, if the electricity can't be stored (batteries) and it would otherwise go to waste (or the wind turbines would be switched off) then it makes sense to convert it into hydrogen (essentially just an alternative form of storage). However, to then convert the hydrogen back into electricity, rather than simply use it as a fuel in its own right, would be just adding inefficiency on inefficiency. I would hazard that converting electricity into hydrogen and then back into electricity would probably be, at best, 20% efficient, if not lower (I believe gas turbines for comparison are, as best, 40-50% efficient) - the initial conversion alone, using Musk's figures would be about 33% efficient (ignoring the subsequent transmission loss).
The amount of energy that it takes to move a petrol-driven car one mile is, in reality, only a small fraction of the untapped energy that existed at the well head (once it has gone through the refining, distribution and combustion process) and we now seem hellbent on making that process even more inefficient! That's progress ;-)