Member Info for mugginsthedog

Picku

DVRG bought MW. However, the company did not have a sales team when they bought it and this was not communicated to DVRG PIs (or MWG PIs) as they contracts were terminated as a result of the bankruptcy. One of the stated objectives of the merger was to cross sell - particularly MW's real time water monitoring. That is impossible as the sales team have all gone. There was no announcement at the time and I would have thought that before PIs were asked to vote then this fact would have been made clear. It was not.

GB was made Chairman at or around the time of the loss of the sales team and therefore would have been well aware of the situation but no mention was made.

The amounts owed are direct from the liquidators report. You might like to check before querying the amounts. I presume that they will include redundancy amounts that were due but not made. However, I cannot be sure.

I am not suggesting that this is DVRG fault. However, GB was aware of all these things and they should have been communicated to PIs. Upto FY 2018 MW was turnover was in excess of £4m. Turnover only collapsed when the sales team left. The worst sales collapse was under GBs stewardship.

The more one looks at history (including pre MWG) the more concerned one gets.

Paul

As ever an enjoyable debate with you! I am not asking that you agree with me but I hope that you realise that I do some proper research although I get a little bored with the number of rampers who want to shout me down, I think that there are an increasingly large number of posters who are asking some serious questions.

For my part the more I look at DVRG the more concerns that I have. MSYS raises more concerns as does Mrs B sales (the amounts are not significant but the message is clear and, yet again the failure to follow AIM rules). I am surprised that no one seems to be concerned that GB has clearly spending a lot of time on MSYS (it must be close to a full time job with the find raise etc) and astonished that all on here seem to be happy with that. His deal with MSYS stinks and there is a clear conflict if DVRG does ever look to buy MSYS. Also judging by his tweets he is not focusing much effort here. I am also concerned about the previous treatment of PIs. As a PI here I do not want to suffer the same fate as others have.

If you need any more evidence then look at the companies house filings;

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/06316697

You will see that the total amount owed by MWS (excluding inter-co accounts was almost £3m) none of this was paid including nothing to the 12 staff (almost the entire remaining sales team) who were owed £341k.

Not sure that any of this came out in the offer document!?

As I have said on many occasions if one waited for this share to be blue before posting then you would be waiting a long time.

Watergenius's comments are not made up at all - it is well documented. MWG ran out of funds and therefore could not make the reagents etc in advance and had to wait for deposits before starting orders. The quality fell and the best sales team located in the US decided that they had enough and left en masse and started their own company. Modern Waters largest sales market by some margin is North America. It seems that the entire sales and management team in N America upped and left and set up on their own in Feb 2020.

https://aqua-sci.com/about-us/

All staff are ex-MW (confirmed on LinkedIn). With the loss of the entire team one wonders how bad the impact will be on MW sales which, in any event, have been in decline for a number of years. This departure seemed quite material and I am surprised that this was not been mentioned either by a MW RNS at the time or in merger documents.

Further, when MW ran out of money it closed the 2 main trading subsidiaries which employed the vast majority of the remaining sales team. No sales team, no product falling sales.

I have been rather critical of the sales team previously but in reality they were simply not there! Again I am surprised that DVRG PIs were not aware of this and note that it does not appear to be mentioned in the offer document.

In fairness to water genius he was the person who first pointed this out and does seem to have an inside track.

If you want to have further evidence you only need to look at the finacials. In the first have MW sales collapsed by 62% - presumably not helped by the lack of sales team. Something else that was not highlighted in the offer document.

Are you referring to the SP, focus or treatment of PIs?

I have not said that he is useless - although, based on history, I have some concerns about treatment of PIs. I would like him to focus on his day job at DVRG which would seem to be a full time role.

As I have mentioned it is quite difficult to find a day when the SP is not falling

Rinse and repeat is quite right.

They have history here and not just with MW.

Simmo - we were having a perfectly sensible discussion with some very interesting points being made. A shame that you have brought the quality to the floor (again)

When you look at the revenue growth you need to look at the combined revenues from MWG and DVRG to make a meaningful comparison. DVRG was £4.4m. For a number of years revenues were over £4m which seems a reasonable base for running sales. Revenues did fall but that was most noticeable when GB became Chairman. From a base of £8.4m combined revenue in 2020 forecast sales in 2021 of £10m is hardly exceptional.

Paul

Good point. I have previously mentioned there is a lack of focus and clarity from DVRG. We seem to have jumped from cruise ships, breathalysers, skin trust, cannabis, waste water testing, covid. It just seems an incoherent muddle. When you look at the shareholder presentation that impression is just magnified.

Andy - I was very interested in your post about why there can be no placings until November. As far as I am aware there is no reason why there cannot be a placing or share issues for a merger (like MW). I may well be wrong so appreciate your thoughts

Is veryone else on here satisfied that GB is diverting so much of his time on MSYS when it is abundantly clear? No doubt some will say that he is a NXD and this should not take too much time. I would beg to differ. He undertaken a large MSYS fundrasing, written himself a real sweatheart deal, changed MSYS management and is now looking at the MSYS strategy while he is continually ramping MSYS on twitter. All this takes huges amounts of time and diverts his time from sorting DVRG.

Newuncle - I also hope that I am wrong but it looks as if history is repeating itself.

If it does happen we know who the winners will be GB and his cronies, Mrs B, Turner Poop and the institutional investors who bought in at the heavily discounted rights price which excluded PIs.

Lets not forget GB has form here

Newuncle/T.Rat I hope that you are right. There have been lots of promises lets see some delivery. However, how can there be delivery when the CEO is clearly spending large amounts of his time elsewhere? I would expect that he spends ALL his time delivering for DVRG rather fannying around on self-enriching projects.

I am not at all sure that DVRG have enough cash. The Reach announcement had no new sales/partners/contracts/revenues but was full of additional spending.

As you are probably aware MSYS has recently undertaken a not unsubstantial fund raise and a all share takeover would provide DVRG which access to cash - albeit at a price of massive dilution to DVRG PIs.

Paul - Let's be honest, there are not many days when the SP does not fall!

As ever I continue to enjoy our exchanges!

Profbet - you and your friend are exactly right. At the risk of repetition how it works is shown below. All seems to be working to plan with DVRG and MSYS SP moving in opposite directions. The losers are DVRG PIs who suffer massive dilution which is presumably why MrsB flipped into MSYS as are several other posters on this BB.

'There has been a lot of speculation on this and MSYS BBs that DVRG will end up buying MSYS. As I result I thought that it would be an interesting idea to look at the rewards for GB and his cronies if this happens. It seems that they have done a deal similar to MW but with knobs on including unearned income etc. Here is how it goes;
GB and Nigel Burton (NB) buy shares in MSYS placing at price of 0.01p. GB buys 90m shares, most of this is funded from the infamous sale of DVRG shares by Mrs B.

GB receives 50m shares a year (annually in advance) for 2 years. Both years get paid, even if a sale happens before the end of the 2 year period when MSYS gets taken over, including by DVRG. So far, so similar to the outrageous deal for MW. However, in addition GB receives a further 250m of warrants exercisable when the company is taken over. MW with knobs on.
What this means in cash terms depends on the takeover price. The deal is very similar to the MW transaction so let’s use the same take out price to placing ratio as MW of 8.1 (0.5p:4.05) ie take out price of 0.40p after rounding. How much does GB make;

Unearned shares (100m x 0.40p) £400k
Warrants 250m x (0.40 – 0.10p) £750k
Paid shares – less cost (90m x (0.4-0.1p)) £270k
Total £1.42m

So £1.42m for a few month’s work – not bad as a side job with hardly any risk. I have illustrated this for GB but NB gets a very similar deal. There are, of course, huge conflicts of interest in addition.

Whilst I am not suggesting this is illegal, it is unacceptable and demonstrates again the snouts in the trough mentality.'

Newboy – you make some good points. As has been shown GB and his mates are in for a big payday if DVRG buys MSYS. I suspect that it will be an all share purchase though rather than cash. The more the MSYS SP goes up and DVRG down the more shares he and his cronies will get in DVRG.

Didn't have a clue what you were talking about until found RobinTrader on MSYS. He does not sound like me and he is not me. However, there are few of the smarter investors on that BB who recognise the issue eg drshan - 'Why would we be happy to potentially absorb hugely discounted share capital + freebee share warrants to business insiders into DVRG down the line. No, far from happy. Perhaps GB can conjure some added tangible value to make it more palatable. The only people at moment doing well out of this situation are the placee's and if he tries to raise more cash from DVRG holders there will be fireworks.'

People are beginning to see that this is a con and the people who will pay will be the PIs (again). GB is in line for a £1.4m payoff.

Chesh - you are not seriously suggesting that GB turned MW around are you? It was in a poor state when he arrived but it was a basket case when he finished not least with turnover collapsing when he was there. It was a loss making company before he arrived and it made bigger losses when he was Chairman.