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What I think Ezyeh post there means Wolffie old bean is show us your money … show us in hard facts / data you believe lmulhare’s data is wrong!

Or otherwise it will be pants still down for longer than you thought!

Morning Paddy Pants Down Wolffie, got those britches pulled up yet, goodwill “is a consolidation adjustment … doesn’t apply to commercial contracts” … still splitting my sides Paddy about the misinformation you put out there!

Now stop it Elvis, you agreed not to talk about goodwill as a bargaining tool with Paddy …. I’m bad …

Listen up amigos, there is a new status conference announced for Tuesday (docket 1269), thousands of hours spent by the creditors advisors in docket 1267 upto December with thousands more in January still to file and they have put their summary final request in earlier this week. Their lawyers bill says potential buyer list shared with them but does not say who

But it’s docket 1268 where the action is happening written by those weasel lawyers in a good way this time

Para 4 .. whilst negotiating a plan and administering a robust marketing process
Para 25 .. administering a comprehensive marketing process

So debtors lawyers are putting their c..k on the block more now, believe we may be getting closer to something being announced now, got to watch those subtle signs …

I agree Wolffie, I think I have even bored myself to sleep, tomorrow is another day … for another topic.

It’s nighty night Paddy from me. … whilst I was at the toilet having a pi..s, funny enough my university professor dropped by and gave me an A+ for highlighting the importance of goodwill / intangibles as a bargaining tool, he says I have made great strides since being an disgruntled university student

Unfortunately he has given you a E- Paddy with a “must try harder as not understanding the concepts” - he suggests first pull your pants up, have a good nights rest and try again. Tomorrow is another day.

Nighty night Wolff!

And Mr Wolff, have you ever thought now in that $4bn goodwill figure there will most likely have been many fair value adjustments … they may for example have agreed to equalise (say) Regal employees pension assets / liabilities with those of Cine, they may have been time limited and now that Regal is being cast off, they want an adjustment and negotiate that element of goodwill… because it is separable and identifiable

Enjoy the read Mr Wolff …

https://www.accaglobal.com/in/en/student/exam-support-resources/fundamentals-exams-study-resources/f7/technical-articles/fair-value-goodwill.html

Now Wolff, don’t trip over your shoelaces just because it is recognised as an asset does not mean it doesn’t have value or bargaining power in a negotiation ….

In answer to an earlier Q beancounters galore will be doing valuations on different valuation (forward looking) theories… I’m hoping it’s not lost on you that audited accounts are on past historical figures already out of date by the time they are published, I think is it called prepared on the historical cost convention…. which is different to the going concern basis or fair value basis …

So tighten your shoelaces Wolff, have a glass of water and try harder. There’s a good boy now

No come on Wolff, give me your answer “cash generating unit” or “internally generated goodwill” (as opposed to purchased goodwill) ,,, give it your best shot to relevance.

And tell me, do patient lists in the dentist goodwill example I provided have value and would the seller in that example be interested in getting some dosh for that? Same as Regals customer lists?

I’d certainly be interested in your thoughts…

Hey up, looney Wolff is back.

Wolffie my old bean, it’s totally pointless having debates with you when you are out of depth on the subject matter, you, and to be honest Hexam have been proven to be total clowns on this subject of intangibles and goodwill. You change your tune so often and you’ve still not got it right, you are now using back of *** packets, market caps divided by share prices with a bit of fair value and book value thrown in.

I couldn’t really care whether they call it intangibles or goodwill, a big chunk of it will go when the annual accounts are out and if a sale goes through. Bigger problem if not. Anyway, try a different one “cash generating unit or cgu” bash that into your search term and see what you get, or maybe chew the fat with your IFRS textbook

And ah, oh yes, how can I forget all those other things that are either separated out that have bargaining power and value (customer lists being one of the biggest”. If the 5c coin hasn’t dropped go back to the dentist and read up on goodwill and value of patients lists.

I’m splitting my sides here Wolff “consolidation adjustment, only on purchase of subsidiaries, goodwill excludes commercial contracts” I think I have to go to the toilet before I wet myself!

Look forward to continuing the debate Mr No Idea! Don’t spend to much time on IFRS3 or IAS 38 or IAS36 old bean!

Like I indicated lm, when Wolff is challenged to come up with the goods, salient or credible responses, he is left well and truly short (no pun intended) and with his pants firmly round his ankles and unable to pull them up!

@lmulhare … I’m still laughing my socks off as poor Wolffie is still pulling his pants up after being caught short on not knowing what he was talking about this morning on goodwill, poor lad! Don’t expect miracles on him answering your Q sensibly!

Chin up, and pants up more like Wolffie, show us what you got!

Or then again mr Wolffie there is purchased goodwill and internally generated goodwill, IFRS3 and IAS38 that I’m sure you know well Wolffie and take to bed each night for a good read!

https://www.ifrs.org/issued-standards/list-of-standards/ias-38-intangible-assets/

Oh Wolff I am just indulging you, I’m totally aware what goodwill is - it is not though as consolidation adjustment or only on the purchase of subsidiaries - so in Cines case, there is$4bn of goodwill on the purchase of Regal “price paid reflecting the fair value over net book value of assets and liabilities acquired”

The hint here is fair value adjustments… there would have been many within that $4bn that can be stripped out as separable and transferable. I know you love investopedia so can indulge your fancy on this

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/100614/goodwill-vs-other-intangible-assets-whats-difference.asp

The key words are cannot be sold, purchased or transferred “separately”, Cineworld isn’t selling separately, it is like to sell all USA so bargaining power applies.

You can’t have it both ways Wolffie old bean!

Morning Wolff, I did what you said I should do a google search - this has left me splitting my sides with laughter when you said it arises on the purchase of subsidiaries and not commercial contracts, which as you can see in the attached dentist example has left you up shi-te creek without a paddle with your argument, and indeed Hexams that goodwill is not transferable or saleable or has no bargaining power … Happy Reading!

https://dentistry.co.uk/2021/01/13/the-value-of-goodwill/

Oh Wolff, you are such a tool when you want to be, I don’t care how many google searches you try to suggest, I’ve never heard such ****e, goodwill is a consolidation adjustment, my ****. In your **** about face way, goodwill / patient lists probably are an exercise bicycle!

The dentists patients won’t be in his balance sheets. Can he sell them, Yes. When the buyer buys them for a price >$1 and they are in his balance sheet for zero, what is that called, Goodwill.

Same goes for elements of the goodwill and other intangible assets in Cines balance sheet.

I’ve come to the conclusion that you should be known on this board as the “Emporer with no clothes” … have a read of this, you may find your definition of goodwill in here!

https://etc.usf.edu/lit2go/68/fairy-tales-and-other-traditional-stories/5637/the-emperors-new-clothes/

Looks like one possible interested buyer is a US Private Equity house, no surprise there …

And for the last post before I go to bed, we don’t know what elements are in the $4bn of goodwill that still have a value, that $4bn would have been made up of many fair value components (in the plural) that could still have a value ..

Nighty night!

Small correction selling the business not the goodwill but on an whatever valuation is determined may or may not be bigger than book value …

Agree no more Hexam, what you point out is correct, my error. However either way I couldn’t care less whether it’s called intangibles or goodwill- the creditors probably used it interchangeably and have picked up if any of those assets within note 12 have a value, are transferable and having bargaining power to which the answer is “yes, some do”.

… and before someone says the biggest portion of the $4bn intangible is goodwill itself, that is of course what Cine is selling and everything that comes with it and for which 100 bean counters have tried to figure out a value on their spreadsheets

What a pile of ****e Wolff, so the dentist who sells his patient list and has no consolidated accounts calls it what, an exercise bicycle maybe? And would he attach a value to it so it could be transferred to a potential buyer, of course he would. It’s the fair value that becomes the book value subject to an impairment test.

You might want to have a read of note 12 to the accounts Wolffie old bean!