Member Info for djwall1s

Potter, this is exactly what I've been saying all along.

You can only move back the cost or value (up to £20,000) into your ISA, meaning you'd possibly have to split your holding up.

It is a mess. However, as mad as I am about it, I am at least heartened by the exercise of warrants today (good news) and seeming progress going on behind the scenes. We have to take every positive and hold onto it atm.

But yes, it dos need to be raised with him. I'd like some compensation for this nuisance tbh.

The basic rate is 20%. Gordon Brown helpfully did away with the 10% rate back around 2008.

Band Taxable income Tax rate 2018/19

Personal Allowance Up to £11,850 0%

Basic rate £11,851 to £46,350 20%

Higher rate £46,351 to £150,000 40%

Additional rate over £150,000 45%

So as you can see, you could be clobbered. Stray into the higher rates and you're paying nearly a half of your profit back to the taxman.

https://www.gov.uk/income-tax-rates

Sorry £20k ISA allowance.

Applegarth, that's all well and good but the trouble with the removal of shares from your ISA means your choices are then limited to only cashing in up to a certain value, unless you want to deal with tax forms.

Now, for me, I am longish term here so would not have been bailing straight away anyway on theoretical relist. The cost of my holding is £38,000. How, with only £15,000 allowed back into an ISA in the next tax year, and this year's allowance used up, am I going to get all that back in without splitting my holding up? A holding that I wanted to keep together and hopefully sell in bulk at some stage, tax free when (I was aiming for) the share (hopefully) hitting 10p?

Sure if I cashed all in at 10p in a non-ISA account I'd get my £38k initial cash back, the 11k allowance but the rest I'd be slapped for tax at 20% on, quite greatly reducing the profit. That is my beef. I'm losing good money to the taxman and through no fault of my own, my shares have been kicked from the account I placed them in.

That is indeed the trouble mate.

Even if the shares come back at 10p with a 'superior product' we're all going to be paying top wack tax on any extra over the allowance. What is it, something ridiculous like 20%? It's a helluva cut to take and the whole point of ISA-ing it was to protect it from this crap.

Which is why, at AGM, we need to ask CP/LION what it intends to do, if anything, about the enforced loss of value from your ISA when these shares then end up in a normal trading account, and thus taxable for CGT. There's no way we're going to relist 30 days after Nov 12th and so all us ISA types are going to be booted out of our ISAs.

We didn't choose this option, we will have had this option forced upon us by the company's actions. I put my LION shares in my ISA purely because I didn't want to have to be filling in tax forms. Well, that was the thinking originally!

Costello, can you troll somewhere else, please. You only pop up to try and inject negativity every time.

Warrants = good whatever way you look at it. You appear with placing, as if it's bad. We weren't talking about bloody placings. If they come they come but warrants = a good move, and even you cannot spoil that.

The Beaufort broker scandal plus other American cases of late show brokers are certainly no less open to corruption and bias than anyone else.

I never refer to my broker as a 'he' either, it's always 'they', a team. I notice people on these boards tend to refer to brokers as if personal buddies with them, but without your money into their business they'd no more look at you than the next man on the street.

Anyway, I think the endorsement from Railsbank of late does show the committment is there and the work goes on. Hopefully we will be okay. I'm still hugely irritated by the ISA situation though.

Also, just to add that, although your broker might be just telling it as he sees it in an honest way from his POV, he is also not going to reveal to you his biases, his trading history or his own portfolio in its entirety. His job is just to get your business.

You don't know if he supports other rival firms to LION or is shorting a stock in private.

You just can't tell.

Your broker may be right. If he has indeed said those things. Time will tell.

But brokers are not gods and are not infallible. Brokers have been known to get into catastrophic messes with rogue agents. Just to keep it in mind.

None of us, brokers, investors or onlookers, are privvy to what goes on in the boardroom so the best and only thing to do is keep a balance and hope things are being worked upon, as they at least seem to be. All we can do is wait. There's now no point in dropping horror stories from every tom, dick and harry here. It's really down to the company to deliver or not, nobody else can answer these questions.

He said: 'I can't see us being that' when discussing whether LION would be a nano or micro cap by year end but it was confusing imo. There's not enough clarity on what he classes LION as, nano or micro cap, and USD or ££ valuation in relation to that. I think we're probably closer to a nano cap. But he has never explicitly said to my knowledge 'we will be' any cap.

With CEOs it's always 'we aim for or 'our goal is'. But back to CP, he of course didn't envisaged a suspension. It might have been a Brr Media or Proactive interview, it's quite a while ago now.

Yet again, he did not say the actual words 'we will be a small cap'.

I give up.

The HMRC rules appear to be perfectly clear as per H&L's correspondences to several people on here. If you don't think it applies to you but you're a British ISA account holder I dunno what to tell you.

There is a mechanism.They told someone that you can get updates via RNS Reach at Investigate (presumably the UK site) and also to contact Admin@Lionsgold.com to keep in touch and update your details on the register, etc.

If they're all held in UK accounts I can't see how the same rule cannot apply. Which theoretically means nobody with LION shares held in a British ISA is safe from them being removed.

It's a point I'll be making at the AGM if I can go, and if not, I'd really like it raising if someone would be kind enough. It is most inconvenient as these shares are then subject to tax outside our ISAs and we will also have paid ISA management fees all year for nothing (if we only or mostly had LION shares in there).

When we come back (and I believe the indications so far are that we will) then assuming the sp does well and you wish to cash in, you could be hit by a substantial CGT bill outside your ISA. The whole point of having ISAs was so we could protect our money, now we're all stuck outside that protection.

Thankfully SIPP shares don't look to be affected so a chink of light there for some.

Thanks stix, I didn't see your message until I'd posted mine. It was inline with what others from H&L were saying but then we were getting people here seeming to indicate their brokers were going to allow their shares to stay in until a relist. So I was confused.

And there's no way LION will relist within 30 days. This is LION we're talking about.

Received today:

"Thank you for your message.

HMRC rules state that only Shares listed on a 'Recognised Stock Exchange' are eligible to be held within an ISA. The rules also state that any stock that does not qualify to be held within an ISA be removed within 30 days.

For this reason if Lionsgold Limited Shares delist we will write to you outlining your options to move your holding to an active Fund & Share Account or to withdraw the Shares into your own name in certificated form. An administration fee of £25 will be charged for each certificate produced.

I trust the above is in order. Should you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to reply to this message.

Kind regards,
xxxxxxx
Corporate Actions"

So what I don't understand is how some companies are saying yes we'll hold them in your ISA indefinitely when according to H&L who appear to be going by HMRC rules, you only have 30 days until after a delist then you're out of your ISA. Hmm...

Sellonnews, cheers. I have contacted my broker (H&L) but have yet to get a reply.

What I'd like to know is (from the responses received so far) why Hargreaves and Lansdown are apparently going to remove LION shares from ISAs but other providers aren't.

Why are some of us left with a mess, is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. I'll update when I know more.

The point I'm making is that if they get turfed form the ISA there's no way of getting them back in there. They have to go in a normal share account and subject to being battered for tax.

That was not what I opted for. I opted to hold them in an ISA.

What is far more of a pain in the jacksie for me atm than having to wait a few more months is the way the delisting will ultimately cause many of those of us unlucky enough to be in brokers who refuse to hold the shares in an ISA, to potentially face getting booted out of our own accounts, through no fault of our own. And with no way of getting the full amount back in on a relist. And ISA fees paid every month for the benefit of holding my LION shares there that have been wasted when they possibly get taken out. Again, not from my actions or choice/s.

So when CP says 'don't get carried away' he needs to keep in mind these actions (though they may well be logical and necessary for the company to complete its business) are probably going to result in a real potential mess for many of us.

My broker hasn't even got back to me yet about what's happening, but because it's H&L I'm expecting the worst tbh. Though people seem to be getting different answers at every turn.