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Don’t have to agree, the mechanics of options and taxation are what they are.
It’s their future prosperity too - it’s their livelihood (income) as well as I think safe to assume a reasonable portion of their overall wealth. If it goes under they are jobless and their shares are worthless - pretty sure none of our incomes are reliant upon LoopUp.
As I said I’ve been a holder for a while so I’m significantly underwater but I don’t believe that anyone wants the share price to be here (except Citi who were/are shorting), directors included.
When you get shares through an option scheme your base cost for CGT is whatever the share price is when they are exercised. Essentially they get pushed through PAYE for tax when the shares actually become yours to realise (sell).
Their exercise price is 0.5p no matter the share price, so a higher share price just means you get more value - anyone would want this.
The CGT point is valid as if you have a higher share price when the shares become yours to sell that is your base cost and so you’ll owe less CGT.
No one is crying about tax but it’s just the way option schemes typically work in the UK. You don’t usually get a choice but sell to cover.
Definitely don’t feel sorry for them, I’ve been a holder for a long time and bought back in at various times to lower my average. Never thought it would get as bad as this but it is what it is, I’ll stick around and see what happens.
Personally I applaud anyone that is doing well for themselves, plenty of ways to reclaim income tax and or offset CGT - if anyone feels they are paying too much tax - they are free to do something about it!
My overall point is that it is of absolutely no benefit to the directors to decimate the share price at any given point. You really think someone wants to own 3% of something worth £10m instead of £100m.
A higher share price also benefits them, not lower. The base cost for CGT being low (current SP) means now the shares are theirs when they eventually sell they will have a higher CGT liability.
Selling to cover the income tax liability is normal with all option schemes, usually happens automatically on the employees behalf.
Octopus AIM and AIM 2 VCTs sold the majority, if not all of their shares shortly after the 2.40ish peak in 2020.
P.S dialled into the investor call last week. Impressed Steve/his team didn’t filter out the tough questions/statements. Not impressed they read out the full names of attendees asking said questions…
Averaged my position down on Friday, reasonable size buy showing as a sell... strange!
As with any new offering they will be likely be streamlining sales to get from lead to client faster which should start to show by mid year hopefully with more announcements.
There is just a fine line for them to tread between optimism and realism. I think they are doing a much better job of that now and I hope that continues.
Hi Idea, I also don’t like the comments about English not being someone’s first language.
The £34m is a base case run rate for 2021 - I think they are being conservative to under promise and over deliver but that is just my take on it. Based on today I would assume they’ve got £5.6m TCV (£2.8m per annum) already to add to that - is that a correct take on what I read today? £5m in final stages plus the £620k already closed.
Google a few fact sheets and prospectuses for UK Small Cap and AIM focused funds and have a read. Most have market cap restrictions ‘at time of investment’ - this might debunk my theory of potential forced sellers. If you don’t know many fund managers’ then take a look at those already holding Loop by heading to their website and looking at the latest cap table, hope this is useful for you.
Most definitely is, but it’s manager and mandate specific. For example if I’m a UK mid cap equity manager this wouldn’t be on my radar whatsoever. As a UK small cap fund it may be but unlikely for most as it’s still too small. As an AIM specific manager it very well could be but it would need to hit certain metrics for me to buy it. You are getting bonds and equities mixed up with the ‘junk ratings’ happy to explain the difference but don’t want to lecture you if you aren’t interested?
I’d expect they need to either hold above £50m for a period of time or hit closer to £75m to be considered but I’m not 100% sure. It really depends on the funds’ mandate as to how soon they could buy - if a fund isn’t a forced seller if it dips back below £50m market cap then there should be nothing holding them back.
Thanks Mornington!
Proud of everyone in here that has kept their cool over the past months. A balanced view on this lead me to hold and top up where and when possible. It just goes to show that reading too deeply into things such as the delay on results isn’t worth it.
CarlIcahnt - They have been clear why results are delayed so I don’t think it’s fair to characterise the delay as managements lack of desire to give news (good or bad).
If you have an approved and drafted RNS then it’s sensible to just wait 7 days to release it rather than unpick the forward statement and release separately to appease investors...
Lots of valid theories on both sides, deflecting by saying people are ramping/deramping just kills healthy debate. Personally, I am taking the RNSs as literal and not reading a thing into them. The one thing I would add is that with no recent TR1s institutional investors are staying long (in the main), with all due respect to everyone on this board they have far more access to management and information than we do. If I saw them heading for the door I would consider following but it appears as if they are staying put!
£15k sold/£180k bought - price in the red, riddle me that.
Small top up for me today - good to get my holding to a nice round number of shares, and my average price down marginally.
I thought you sold out at a loss Soder? Tempted to get back in or just hanging around dissing management of a company you have no vested interest in.
An insider and employee (not founder) sold £250k of shares... big deal! He owns or has options over a ton more. Maybe he wanted to diversify or pay school fees for his kids or who’s knows what.
I would like to see them be completely positive i.e £0 net debt with X amount of cash in the bank but I think with the recent new hires, especially senior ones we would be lucky.
Interestingly they haven’t announced any new share option packages/dealing.
It is rather tedious holding Loop whilst other shares fly around but every time I reanalyse my decision to invest I come to the same conclusion. I want exposure to this sector and I don’t want to pay through the roof for it.
Would love to keep building my position at this price but I don’t have the funds.