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Spot on RG .CA 's holding in HUR is worth about £12-13 mill at the mo. That number will become zero if HUR folds. Like all shareholders CA are at the back of the queue so it is a matter of some significance to them. Sadly Richard Bernsteins track record of value destruction at CA rivals that of the previous HUR board.I have just reread the judgement and in essence it says only that the possibility of HUR continuing to trade and finding a means of paying off the bondholders is greater than zero, or at best, greater than 5%so the judgemtn deferred the day of reckoning.

OK cebo my last comments beofe I move on . A 1% short on a company with a MC of £50 mill has a MAXIMUM return of £0.5 mill if the company goes bust , i don't see that as an adeqaute hedge for any significant size of bond , so irrelevant IMV.The other point is that if/when the company goes bust the bondholders own it , some might think that's their best option.

Cebo your comment re bondholders holding shorts as a hedge WAS true as I set out on this board some years ago, but it is unlikely now to be true ,nobody shorts a penny stock , there just isn't enough equity to burn and very little profit to be made!If as you hope, bondholders do not cash in (and the fact that HUR are upping the cash indicates that they have had insufficent takers so far ) that is the best possible news for HUR out of this exercise. For my part I suspect that HUR will get a full response, we shall see!

Cautionary word, I don't hold here and haven't for several years but still take an interest.I warned months ago that "your shares are worthless". Well I was wrong , they retain some residual value, albeit slight. Today news is interesting , suggesting that HUR will probably be able to buy back a substantial tranche of the Convi's at about 75-80 cents on the dollar and that is an entirely good thing for the company in pure cash terms. BUT (if you know me you'd know there was a but coming!)the fact that bondholders are willing to cash out a bond with a coupon of 7.5% at 80 cents on the dollar indicates their view of HUR's prospects. Sadly I can see litle future here other than a managed decline. That said I wish all holders good luck.

Falky yet again I will post a reply to your incorrect info and then leave the field to you,. I didn't sell in June or july or August and at no point have I said I would.
On 19 august (SP 111p) I said " day to buy/add"
On 23July (SP 97p) I said "I am invested and will probably be adding"

Falky I do not intend to get in to an online argument with you BUT rather than rattling off unsubstantiated guesses , why don't you analyse the copious data which is IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.
eg Causeways holding was not above 3% (the lowest notifiable level) until 04/05/20 at which point they declared a 5% interest (about 100 mill shares)
Ther are RNS's on 14/07/20 and 03/09 20(when the Sp was about 200-220p) showing their holding growing from 5 to 6 and then 7%
By the time of the RI they held ~7% of RR's stock so they benefitted from the RI for at least140 mill shares. The fact that they still hold a big single figuere percentage of the stock illustrates they must have taken up the RI in full( see the calculation I offered earlier )otherwise they would have been diluted.
SO I stand by my view, backed up by evidence not conjecture ,that their price average is likely to be way lower than their original purchase and almost certainly below 100p.
Not all purchases are notifiable by RNS , only those which breach a boundary and all II's know this and exploit it.

Remember if they bought pre RI then they got 10 shares at 32p for every three they held, so their average price will be WAY below that .The article referenced is from March 2020 well BEFORE the RI.Worst case, if they held at average of 350 pre RI they now average ~105p if you can't work it out for yourself here it is .
(3x350) +(10x32)=1370
1370/13=105.38
If ,as I am pretty sure, they and other US investment houses bought significant stock in the sharp fall just before the RI( check the plethora of Holding RNS's last November and look at the SP collapse in the period when RR and the underwriters were undoubtedly sounding out large scale holders about their willingness to fund a RI and at what discount!!)tTaking that in to consideration it is clear that their average now will be below, and probably well below, 100.
These guys, you may be surprised to learn, are pretty sharp and much better informed than most posters here!

MR JIm.....I suspect that the comment which appeared in the Telegraph about Causeway buying in 2019 is incorrect , they had no notifibable presence in 2019 and the first RNS I can find for them is showing a buy on 03/11/20 taking them from 7 to 8% all accumulated in the pre RI frenzy of speculation which included GS and Blackrock . Causeway along with the other US based entities took advantage of the exceptionally heavily discounted RI to run a "long short " strategy whereby they expected to bank heavy profits on shares but took out a short as insurance against a RR SP collapse . Should you care to check, my posts of 11/12 Nov 2020 explained what they were doing and why it was a foolproof win win.I also pointed out that all of the shorts running during that period would be closed immediately on conclusion of the RI as they were . In earlier posts I explained that buying pre RI and holding for the rights was a "no brainer" profit and indeed I and I am sure Causeway and Capital (another west coast investor whose staff I met in LA a couple of years ago)are sitting with substantial stock at an average in the seventies, as I am.
Based on supposition alone I suspect that there will be enormus pressure on RR to do something significnat and soon or the Yanks will bank their profits and run , driving the SP down.RR management know this and will IMV make some significant concessions rather than face another SP meltdown. All that said I still hold!though with my finger hovering over the sell button.

I was told it was coming out in the Torygraphs weekend business section which is why I posted after market close.

yeah billion - shouldn't have had that last glass of red!

Story given to me at a businesss lunch today ,according to my info causeway hold approx 600 mill shares ~7% FT quoted "nearly 9%" a few days ago and said Causeway were agitating for action , todays news is as said, they're pressing for RR to become an aviation/ defence focussed company, citing too many financiers, too few engineers , too little focus. whatever the truth it seems RR are again under pressure to do something.As of 27 january Causeway were listed by LSE as holding 7.02%

Mutterings in the city that Causeway capital(who hold 7% of RR stock) are pressing for the sale of power systems , estimated value £3.5 mill . This story has been floating about for a few days and is based on the fear that RR recovery of flying hour revenues is receding and there is a potential need for cash (again). It is also a concern that ITP has still not been sold and its value may well be less than RR's hopes . There is a problem in that the major cash raise last year was predicated on more optimistic flying hours figures than we are seeing and covid persistence and much lower flight activity is probable well in to next year.SP action over the next few weeks may be negative , I hold and will continue as I am willing to ride out the throughs and wait for the peaks , tho' a peak is NOT likely this year.

Rock.... according to the RNS of 10/06 Altice(Drahi's co.) hold all of their interest as shares .

I do.

I begin to wonder whether the steady rise in the early part of this year was wholly or at least in part ,due to Drahi's proxies hoovering up stock. As previously discussed his announcement of a notifiable holding implied a considered and deliberate attempt to establish a position without frightening the horses.It may be merely a summer lull but volumes seem to have dropped and a very distinct drift downward is in place. Whether Drahi returns to the offensive we must wait and see or maybe no action until his self-imposed, silence ends in December
I hold a good few here , though as always no more than low single figures percent of my folio, but am tempted to add at theses levels . IMV the positives still remain , a semi monoply position in a modern essential utility , probably exacerbated by the WFH revolution which Again IMV ,is likely to become permanent. In Openreach a subsidiary widely reckoned to be worth more (much more at these prices) than the entire BT MC.I am a patient type and the larger rewards here might be some time away but they will come and I can wait.

Dinvesotoy it may interst you to know that the post of attorney at law does NOT exist inthe UK.
" Often confused with a solicitor or barrister, an attorney doesn’t actually exist under UK law as a person that can practice law. Any attorney search that you do online will invariably return details of attorneys in the USA. An attorney search in the US would give the same results as searching for a solicitor in the UK as they are broadly the same. An attorney search will also often show instances of the word ‘lawyer’. Generally speaking, attorney is the American name for a solicitor."

In the hope of clarifying terminology can I suggest the following widely accepted terminology.
Your "average" is the average price paid for the stock you hold.
You may have "trading profits" earned by buying and selling the same stock previously.
Even if you have used those trading profits to buy some of your existing stock holding that DOES NOT alter your average.

SCB I use Investing . com for my stats . As you are no doubt aware,there are varying statistics around WRT to prices,bid- offer spreads etc . With a share like lloy with several MMS and especially in fast moving markets the numbers offered by different providers will be different . My point was simply to suggest that Azurris claim was , to put it politely , improbable.He did not post on the LLOY board for almost six months and didn't start bragging about his entry point until recently. While no one has an obligation to detail their buys and sells , they do have IMV an obligation to a reasonable level of integrity . Azurri has posted " LLOY 80-120 by the end of this year" on many occasions. I think that is improbable, indeed highly misleading and was seeking to illustrate that his basis for such unfounded and unsupported optimism like his other claims, is shaky.

I did say ten year low.

SCB I invest on a timescale of years not days , and seldom get the top or bottom of the market , when I do it owes as much to chance as to skill!!