Member Info for belgrano

True to previous form when Ashman misses targets he goes quiet. Below expectation RNS.... really not surprised, and please don't anyone bet high with actual Zenakine royalties being high or game changing. Thank god many on here also in INSG which at long last is starting to see legs.

15% lost target 10% off price.

Now we see reasons why he raised so much capital, and gone silent for so long.

thankyou dustbin for that great post.

clearly adding 3% zenakine works wonders, so lets run with that now saying everyone wants some and pick a base cream out of the hat, say n0:7 restore and renew, currently selling at £18 for a 50g pot...i'll add links so folks can see i'm not blowing hot air (or sinking fast).

https://www.no7beauty.co.uk/restore-and-renew-face-and-neck-multi-action-day-cream-50ml/12749947.html

now lets actually see whats in it..... 67 ingredients.

aqua (water), glycerin, c12-15 alkyl benzoate, octocrylene, butyl methoxydibenzoylmethane, butylene glycol, butyrospermum parkii (shea) butter, tribehenin, polyglyceryl-6 stearate, dimethicone, ammonium acryloyldimethyltaurate/vp copolymer, alcohol denat., ethylhexyl salicylate, cetearyl alcohol, silica, phenoxyethanol, bis-ethylhexyloxyphenol methoxyphenyl triazine, potassium cetyl phosphate, xanthan gum, methylparaben, dimethiconol, pentylene glycol, ascorbyl glucoside, parfum (fragrance), propylene glycol, tocopheryl acetate, ethylparaben, diethylhexyl butamido triazone, hibiscus abelmoschus extract, retinyl palmitate, hydrolyzed hyaluronic acid, dipropylene glycol, hydrolyzed rice protein, tetrasodium edta, sorbitan laurate, t-butyl alcohol, potassium hydroxide, polysorbate 20, polyglyceryl-6 behenate, panax ginseng root extract, simethicone, phyllanthus emblica fruit extract, sodium lauroyl lactylate, carbomer, 3-aminopropane sulfonic acid, calcium hydroxymethionine, hydroxyethylcellulose, dimethylmethoxy chromanol, acetyl dipeptide-1 cetyl ester, morus alba leaf extract, ceramide np, sodium benzoate, ceramide ap, phytosphingosine, cholesterol, ethylhexylglycerin, tocopherol, palmitoyl tripeptide-1, palmitoyl tetrapeptide-7, ceramide eop, ci 77891 (titanium dioxide), ci 77491 (iron oxides), ci 14700 (red 4).

so lets just say we wish to add 3% zenakine, no problem croda can do in a 1 ton ibc.

however in this mix there are say 5 other ingredients, like alba leaf, panax ginsing root extract, matrixyl and 2 random others all expensive and costing similar to our own. lets say all equal, but triple costing over the rest.

what realistically might be the royalties on 1000kg formulated delivery. ????

well just *** packet calcs might be for the 20,000 pots potential, but more likely 19k total retail eye watering £342,000 from one ibc. this is actually £342 per kilo at retail. now lets remove profit margin , which is at least 500%. so £68.4 per kilo. the five specials cost three times the rest weight for weight so lets say 15%. or £10 per kilo (5 times 3% volume). so remainder is £58.14 per kilo for the other 64 ingredients .but the triple priced active 5 cost a tenner for the 5 or £2 per kilo each, and we have 15 kilos of zenakine worth £30. our royalty is double figs not off retail £342,000, or formulated batch £68,000, or the five specials £10,000 but one special £2,000 and we get double digit payment on that say £200.

its a nice extra income stream

The reason I bleat on about it is although we may see Zenakine being sold for a hundred quid a pot in every dept store in the country literally raking in multi millions, if it transpires that our share is peanuts, its not good by a very long way.

I believe we many were hoping to see a couple of million in royalty and growing in year 1, and if it transpires not even to cover our CEO's salary we have serious issues. It all depends on the small print in the agreement. Had a big fanfare launch with standing ovation and it all goes silent.

Btm line, we cannot expect our other products to be the multi bagging catalyst that investors hoped for.

Hi Net,

I know the questions have been asked before but still the answers are not satisfactory. I believe they are double figs at the outset, and drop marginally on higher sales numbers. Please humour me with a couple of examples while we await for an update.

1. Croda sell an IBC (1000 kilo), of Zenakine mixed with a bulking cream agent to a customer for £5,000, (£5 per kilo)..... Q: whats our royalty,

some may say ..£500. However thats 10% for the cost of the IBC and the bulking agent.

Now we know a sprinkle is 3%, so the 1000 kilo IBC holds 30Kilos of Zenakine. So might be £150 royalty, which is pants.

Clearly depends on what value Croda set on each ingredient, so easily have the ability to reduce our royalty very significantly by downplaying the ingredient cost of Zenakine compared to bulking agents.

Now that 1000kilo batch might fill 20,000 pots of 50 grams each..and lets call it a cheap cream going for a tenner..so worth £200,000 retail ..and we get £150 ?? ..This is the point, I expect Zenakine cost more than that and other expensive ingredients added , but we wont get any royalties on them.

Thank you Elrico, for confirming actually what I already knew. Think his actual question was do SBTX pay. I've actually always known it, and the main point for me was that when things turned for the worse you were prepared to "go against", the company in investigation as you saw it, proving total independence.

Always going to get someone say "but you shagga one sheep". ??

Knowing this was one of the reasons I asked you if you would have been interested in doing a review on Min last Dec, when things we believed were looking very good. You turned down the offer as would only do a write up on companies you would invest in, which is fair enough. In hindsight for me shame you didn't as might have revealed the hidden horrors within and stopped me loosing so much money as I value your work. For the record I got accused of being involved /paid there which actually is untrue, and count myself lucky to exit with losses when something didn't seem right.

Have similar feeling here currently that somethings not right, SA gone quiet where he could easily do ample reassurance without breaking any NDA, so something off in my mind. Cant help thinking its royalty related as so many unanswered questions on how its achieved.

Lets hope for an update for everyone soon, including those not able to see your write ups.

Oleric, I did hear that OPTI stopped some payment when some pretty hard hitting home truths were revealed. Clearly this doesn't directly answer your question, Mind you those guys do put in a lot of their own time in research to a depth far exceeding any broker, and in my mind deserve any small additional reward. Fairly common to find "finders fees,", or small rewards for setting up investor meets, or arranging premises to hold them in, which is never free. Can recall hearing that some other folk do get rewarded for their efforts. TW comes to mind a gent I also respect.

Really could do with accurate update, also all those heavy trades we've seen certainly doesn't fit with what we've been told. Underhand isn't the word for his current actions.

I expect if the amount of years taken to achieve where we are today are taken properly into consideration this stock and opti would never get a recommendation from anyone. Makes you wonder why in some quarters its still being highlighted.

The product might eventually do well, but just how many years of inflation dilution and share price destruction will it take . Most peeps invested in this company hoping for decent returns in 3-4 years, now nearly 6 years and potentially still a long way off.

Only one who has done well is SA, and no surprise hes got no real skin in the game, wonder why....

They do have a cordial relationship, but business is business. No escaping the fact that SOH has had a nasty health scare which he very fortunately appears to have fully recovered from. Having one of those does focus the mind, and running any company is very hands on and not stress free.

He always promised OPTI holders a dividend from SBTX stock sales and to date it has not happened. What finer way to hand in the reigns by delivering something to his shareholders, and his biggest shareholder.......himself.

SOH has been selling SBTX stock for the past four years and it causes a huge drag on any share momentum as investors see it destroyed time and time again by large stock sales. SA is fully aware of this fact, and it might be in his best interest to see it removed once and for all. Even if he has to deceive his investors for a while with a half truth.. hiding behind the NDA. However same cannot be said for his larger institutional investors.

Yes Bazz, if we believe those comments, somethings not right with information being released to his faithful shareholders. If that was correct, says its other stock being traded now as for those that purchased its a done deal.

Lol, sry if below comes across as ramping, have been looking hard at both sides of the coin today.

Huge institutional trades going on behind the scenes. Much more than the rights issue.

Still cant stop thinking that SOH is cashing out, and singer are doing all the leg work. Croda royalties might be high but SA isn't releasing actual figs to the market as this would damage singer sales to its big clients as share price would rise, and they wouldn't be able to offload bulk for low prices.

The above would actually fit with todays issues on whats going on, because I believe the with holding of information and share price action seen for weeks is linked. Clearly if true those buying cheaply have had info whispered in their ears from Singer, who themselves only got it from one source.

He has a proven track record of going very quiet when things are not going well. Do we really believe that his NDA prevents him giving out non specific hints or tips to reassure his investors.

As for hiding income a disgrace if proven correct.

I'm not a subscriber to any paywall so any info updates would be an advantage currently, and know on here I'm certainly not alone on that.

Will message SA again requesting similar info, on behalf of those not subscribed or blocked.

What a load of rollocks you do speak Josh. I'm glad to see you wasting your time trying to discredit where none is due, and clearly spending plenty of time trawling through my posts trying to gain some queer advantage to boost your ego...or is it helping the patient? . Ive already caught you out several times with false posted comments and still you don't have the decency to apologise.

Yep I know you are not who you claim by the childish way you write, no true pro would waste the time.. Just out of uni and unemployed I'd wager.

Still trying to play the player and not the ball, sure sign you've lost the discussion but you repeatedly try to rubbish me without cause.

Good post Oleric,

We strongly suspect hes a fraud, who's done some studying but far from the professional he claims to be. Exactly why he's hiding his true identity. Another keyboard warrior. Just a shame hes been using others distribution lists to peddle his claims.

Same fella who told us "pre launch sub-scription numbers growing at an alarming rate... wasn't wrong, turned out to be awful.

No surprise he doesn't put decent skin in the game.

What well penned garbage this Josh posts, honesty if folk spent less time trying to score brownie points and trying to make up crap about investors here it would be much nicer.

What we have is a kid pretending to be a head shrink hiding his identity, with a bee in his bonnet. Says hes trying to protect investors from X, Y,Z. His idea was to gain popularity and hopefully gain subscriptions.. Well mate coming out of the blue with constant personal attacks without permission will never make you a living, best give up now. Acting on behalf of others ??? yeah rubbish, its you that lost money and now try to go at anyone you think is trying to influence peeps. You need the couch yourself mate, and stop posting well penned nastiness.

Strange trading been going on for days now with many millions changing hands. Just a blue sky thought, which might be wide of the mark but what if all the trades are not the overhang at all. The one that comes to mind is the new broker selling all the OPTI holding on behalf of SA.

Hes been a pain in the SBTX side for years, and not new news that he would like to sell up...

Health issues may have concentrated the mind somewhat, and if in his shoes with his holding would make perfect sense if giving up the OPTI reigns, get that last big OPTI divi, and SBTX holders would also be happy.

What do others think

No