Member Info for asclypius

You can buy Camkids' gear online from major online retailing sites: http://camkids.jd.com/ http://shop102601214.taobao.com/ Camkids get interviewed on TV: http://i.youku.com/u/UMjA1NDE1NzEy. The NEDs are high-profile, serious individuals who say that they have visited the factory and dozens of the stores and "kicked the tyres". None of the Naibu red flags in the accounts - related party transactions or complicated corporate structures. I hold shares in Camkids and held shares in Naibu until the initial warning about their possibly not being able to use their new factory in the way they planned, at which point I lost faith in them and managed to sell for a small profit, suspecting that they were screwing the UK shareholders. But I still have faith in Camkids - at least, I think it is more likely than not that there is a real company of decent size here. Even if they have lied about certain things (and I have no evidence to suggest that this is the case), it is still quite possible that there is something of real value underlying this and the shares should be at a normalised P/E, based on the official accounts, of between 3 and 5. Reasons to be sceptical: Camkids claim their market position thanks to a rating by Euromonitor International, the same crowd who may have been duped into giving the probably fake company Fraspens a rating: http://www.investegate.co.uk/fraspens-outdoor-grp/rns/intention-to-float---aim/201407210700107977M/ And also: Camkids intend to spend RMB 200 million by 2016 on a new manufacturing facility (sound familiar?). But that's only about half of their most recently reported cash balance. http://www.lse.co.uk/share-regulatory-news.asp?shareprice=CAMK&ArticleCode=bb3gh2bc&ArticleHeadline=Final_Results It's a binary bet which possibly should be avoided by most investors nearly all of the time, though. In my opinion there is probably a real company here which is worth something, and a P/E of much less than 1 if you subtract the alleged net cash is likely to overcompensate for the most likely real underlying value. But the bears are right that there is still a decent chance of a 0p fair value. Do your own research. All in my humble worthless opinion. I will continue to hold.

Do some proper research into the source of that claim - it's not a credible source in my humble opinion. For example, here is an example of a company which allegedly refused pay a fee to receive its "award" from F&S: http://www.bio-pro.de/magazin/wirtschaft/archiv_2008/index.html?lang=en&artikelid=/artikel/02032/index.htmlhttp://ipvm.com/report/should_you_trust_frost_&_sullivan_awards Read this: http://billanddave.wordpress.com/2007/06/03/frost-sullivan-award/#comment-2560 Also, keep an eye out for the Fraspens IPO which was supposed to be in August. It would be worth asking Daniel Stewart why this has been delayed. Before they pulled their website down, Fraspens published a shareholder list which included several of the former Naibu shareholders. http://www.fraspens.com/fs/ http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail.html?announcementId=12023303

Former Naibu shareholders Allied Property, Riemann Investment, etc., have decided to create a new website for their next vehicle to riches, instead of simply copying the one they used for Naibu: http://www.fraspens.com/fs/

Hepu already had the hallmarks of a terrible plantation. The Company need to get the other plantations working properly and (here is the difficult bit) avoid wasting too much cash on Hepu / canker issues. If they do that they easily justify the current share price, and it doesn't seem very complicated, but can they be trusted with the new CEO/management team? Anyone got any insights? The writedown today was not material IMV.

The joke is on you, my friend. The folks who organised the Naibu jig obviously think it was a success, and are about to do it again with a *very* similar company - so similar indeed that they haven't bothered to even give it a different website to their first one, or to give all of their fake holding companies new names. The folks who trashed Naibu by selling huge chunks of it at ludicrously cheap levels - if the accounts are correct and everything is above board - are happy with what they did are about to do it again with a new company. Who is getting mugged and who is the mugger?

Some of the Fraspens shareholders sound remarkably similar to former Naibu shareholders. http://www.fraspens.com/fs/?Investor/Shareholders-Information/ "Allied Property", "Riemann Investment", anyone?

Why don't your browse their informative website and have a look.

"sudden and continuing labour shortages" There has been a coastal labour shortage since 2011. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2011/12/20/in-coastal-china-a-labor-shortage/ http://www.manzellareport.com/index.php/labor/648-the-real-cause-and-impact-of-china-s-labor-shortage Will you folks be investing in Fraspens? Compare websites... http://www.fraspens.com/fs http://www.naibu.com/

Thanks for the recommendations. I am very curious to see if Naibu will receive yet another de-rating when people realise that they have the opportunity to invest in an identical company with an identical cheap website.

http://www.fraspens.com/fs/

I've been watching this and Naibu for a while. Naibu has a LOT of red flags and eventually I decided that it was too dangerous for me. Camkids is very different, however what I think may have spooked the sector is the announcement that Fraspens was going to float. Compare the Fraspens and Naibu websites (both using Daniel Stewart as NOMAD): http://www.fraspens.com/fs/ http://www.naibu.com/

Hepu was already ruined by canker, I wouldn't be surprised if the best move was to just shut it down and focus on their other plantations. They should also distribute to shareholders all the cash they don't need.

Sorry jolly, I failed to detect your sarcasm... but yes I fully agree, it's easy to be a bull with £500 (no k) on the line.

No k is missing..

£500 is probably not your life savings so good luck... I could be convinced to put £500 on it too.

Good luck to you... The only reason I would bid here is that Huoyan Lin bought 1,800,000 shares @ 58p last July. The number of shares has out has increased by 7% since then and is shortly due to increase again with the latest scrip dividend, but if 58p was attractive to insiders back then and the company's value is unchanged, then maybe 55p is attractive now.

"at least NBU have kept their [auditors]" Unfortunately they haven't even done that - according to some, they had six auditors in six years! http://www.stockopedia.com/content/is-naibu-global-international-the-most-undervalued-stock-in-the-market-yes-says-simon-thompson-bull-vs-no-says-lucien-miers-bear-81860/?comment=5#5 As of June 2012, the auditors were Foo Kon Tan Grant Thornton, but they didn't stay for long - and I have seen no explanation for this. The professional/experienced CFO also left shortly after the float, and the explanation was weak. The other Chinese companies I have invested in do not have so many red flags, e.g. they may have analyst coverage which is not just their house broker, they may have a longer history of operations and/or dividends, they may have less ambitious plans in terms of capex, they may have a more significant internet presence, they may have a better track record of hitting their targets, they may have had the same auditors for a longer period of time, they may appear at events to take questions from investors and analysts, they may have a less complicated corporate structure, their presence may be verified by independent and credible industry reports, and they may have higher profile non-executive directors with strong industry experience. Of course, it's still possible that Naibu is undervalued - but how much money should someone risk on that possibility? For most people, the answer to that question is zero.

Mould - I don't think the cash pile is fiction. What I'm worried about is that I collect a few dividends and then the company says that the Sichuan project didn't work out and they don't have a cash pile any more. We each have to choose investments that satisfy our risk profile and I'm not comfortable accepting the risk associated with this one right now. Good luck to those who stay in it and perhaps I'll rejoin you at a later date. By the way I agree with you that dividends are a very good sign and am invested in other dividend-paying Chinese companies. Just one or two too many red flags with this one.

Naibu is down nearly 20% this month, while Camkids is almost unchanged. Perhaps the market is beginning to differentiate between them.

You're welcome and I also am not worried about the macro-economics, I'm only worried about what the company says and what they do... and yes the trademarks being leased from that other entity are another big red flag. On a related note, I also find this interesting (page 10 of AR): "The Group is developing a new brand, “NIBO”, based on a European fashion concept and this new brand is targeted to be launched in 2015." Imagine if Nike said they were developing a new brand called "Niko", what would be the reaction? What could be the rationale for doing that? It's truly very cheap now but I'm sufficiently scared by Naibu at this point that I could only make a very small investment of "mad money" that I would expect to lose. Like you, I am happy to accept that the cash probably exists - that the company is not fraudulent in that way and the auditors have not been fooled. But they also need to prove to investors that they aren't going to mysteriously waste all their cash on building projects which lead to nothing. I hope they do and would not rule out eventually buying in again.