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Hi Riskisgood,
I obviously expressed myself poorly : I am not denying the existence - in the lab - of our product. What we don't have is a commodity ready for sale and delivery to the buyer in commercial quantities.
Hope this clarifies.
ATB
Mr Risky I couldn’t agree more.
Riski excellent reply. If ZIOC was a gold mine awaiting development the gold price would be relevant. However with extrader you will get a convoluted view. The last word should be on its way shortly.
Hi Extrader, "Rather than regurgitate today's spot price for our non-existent product" Just to clarify, ZIOP product(s) have met all industry standard tests as determined by independent third party laboratories. These products include: 67% pellets 67.4% pellet feed concentrate 62% DSO So they do very much exist. FYI - The pellet market is a high value added supply constrained market with sales taking place on a bespoke basis and hence prices are not consistent across the board. What's important to understand is why there is a structural change in demand for higher grade fe%. The "regurgitate today's spot price" is the best indicator we have to prove the structural change theory and prove assurances of the long term economic benefit of producing high quality iron ore from all phases of the Project's development. BR Riski
Hi No.1SS,
There is no forward commitment of US$ 2.5 billion, see my post @1108 today. This from the horse's mouth - the supposed Danish commitment doesn't exist.
ATB
The forward commitment of $2.5 billion of funding into Point Noire is absolutely huge in the larger scheme of things for IMF support. It's massive and shows how investable the RoC is now becoming. Zanaga movement next is very likely for confirmation of stage 1 & EPP until completion. IMO.
Hi OliverJames,
…"some commenters on this board would do well to stay quiet than be pessimistic in times of slow news flow...."
How do you feel about somebody posting facts in response to a hyped 'breaking news' story like the Danish ammonia/urea plant ?
'Research' isn't just copy + paste uncritically the bits that support your existing view, it's checking the credibility of the source and the plausibility of the story.
Rather than regurgitate today's spot price for our non-existent product, I'd be much more interested in what the 2 to 5 year forward price (and depth) looked like, when we're on the way to having some production (EPP and/or Stage 1) worth hedging.
ATB
ATB
"one of the most pivotal and intrinsically important roles (apart from a professional and vocal CEO) is an IR Manager who knows what info is needed and timely posting of it "
I have to agree with this. The company are now at a stage where attracting investment or an off-take agreement is vital. Creating an international buzz about the company can only help that in my opinion. OK, an important investor or partner is not going to pile in based on what they read on the internet, but if it brings the company to the attention of one potential investor or institution who maybe was not fully clued in on Zioc, then it has to be worth it. We have said many times on this board that Zioc is "under the radar". That has to change.
Opening a company Twitter account was a positive step, but tweets seem to have dried up. The investor's meeting if/when it takes place is another positive. But there is more that could be done to give Zioc a much higher profile - just as TCF says.
I am absolutely of the same opinion. That stocks, such as this, which are very news driven would do well to pay careful attention to their IR - even in relation to Social Media.
That being said, as I have stated in the past, I am more confident of value return from the shares I hold in stocks with more conviction in operations than PR.
I'm firmly behind ZIOC as a long terms value asset - my opinion was that some commenters on this board would do well to stay quiet than be pessimistic in times of slow news flow.
OJ, we are all (mostly) believers in the fundamentals. MM and a couple others do some serious homework and post some great info here benefiting everyone. But as we all see, none of this assists the SP without news. Reflect that this is AIM and PI's trade generally nervously regardless of what people post as its not fact until an RNS says it is or a meetings minutes are published and regulation of AIM is as we all know not so stringent, leading to potentially greater risk (and reward).
No matter how good the news, it becomes more skeptical as time progresses and without news flow so PI's slowly think the worst and as many dont have the funds to just watch them erode and risk, they slowly but surely pull out.
Hence, my comments, based upon my years of experience trading and that is that one of the most pivotal and intrinsically important roles (apart from a professional and vocal CEO) is an IR Manager who knows what info is needed and timely posting of it and thus maintaining investor interest and ultimately shareholder value. Its an absolute necessity - and as can be seen clearly here as a prime example, without it and without news shareholder value and positivity generally erodes.
It simply amazes me that so many companies, even FTSE 350 companies still pay so little attention to IR when they could easily and relatively quickly secure LTH's and investors with a little grease and gumption.
I vote MM for their new IR officer:)
All IMO of course -
Not entirely, last couple of weeks we have had no bad news and the share price has stalled. Damaging sentiment, the fundamentals remain unchanged - no negative news to dissuade anyone from believing the common consensus. Still.
Hi OliverJames
…" this is a news and sentiment driven share...."
They're 2 completely different drivers.
Remember the Ben Graham saying about the stock market : in the short term a voting machine (= sentiment) in the long term a weighing machine (= facts-driven).
The facts re ZIOC are pretty positive, in the long term we 'should' do well. Short-term 'irrational exuberance' is what makes for share price volatility, which doesn't ultimately benefit most people.
ATB
Semantics really. Either way, this is a news and sentiment driven share. Belittling news and helping drive down sentiment seems a little counter productive. Hey ho, we all seem to be in this for the long haul so no harm done.
"Just wondering why you make so much negative noise, that's all. Good to hear we're on the same team."
I wouldn't call it negative noise - more realistic noise. Extrader's research should be as useful to us all as MinorMiner's - if we want a balanced view of things.
Apart from the company report on the quality of the iron ore and their statement that it's looking good for the cold pellet process, virtually everything else we have at the moment is still speculation.
Hopefully the upcoming investor's meeting will move things forward with more factual information.
Just wondering why you make so much negative noise, that's all. Good to hear we're on the same team.
Hi OliverJames,
.."Extrader, out of interest are you an investor in ZIOC?.."
Yes. If you take the time to look through my posts, you'll see that I've
- declared in general terms what %age ZIOC and 2 other miners represent of my total investments;
- reported an increase in my holding at the recent dip (averaging UP);
- that my target/expectation is around 200p - and that I'll be delighted with an early 1:1 takeout by GLEN;
- that I've bought a token stake for my new grand-daughter;
- and that I've set a limit sell order on 10% of my holding at 49p, which if exercised will bring my net 'in' cost to around 4.7p.
You may care to compare and contrast my candour with others.....and then join a few more dots.
ATB
Extrader, out of interest are you an investor in ZIOC?
Thanks Extrader, I really appreciate your posts. The self-appointed ayatollahs around here may feel threatened by you but please keep posting. Thanks again
Hi all,
Haldor Topsoe and EKF (the Danish export credit agency) have now replied to my query re their involvement in the upcoming US$ 2.3 -2.5 billion (what's a couple of hundred million $$$ between friends ?) ammonia / urea project announced in Congolese media.
Haldor Topsoe says : “ The only thing that I can confirm at this early time is that we are indeed part of the project. It is much too early to get into further detail.”
Whilst EKF says : “Im not aware of any involvement by EKF on this project. The article does not mention EKF, but does mention IFU…
EKF is closed for cover on Congo by the way.”
IFU is the Danish Development/aid agency. [ IKF, referenced in the Congolese article is either the International Korfball Federation or the International Kabbadi Federation].
The IFU (per its website) has supported approx. 1250 projects with a total value of US$ 30 billion, IFU’s share US$ 3 billion (so an average of $ 2.5 million per project)
Its only (completed 2006-2011) project in C-B, forestry, had a total project value of US$ 50 million, which it supported with a $9 million loan (likely to the Danish suppliers).
As I suggested at the outset, HT is a promotor/catalyst, who MIGHT take a small equity stake in a project of this size, to lubricate its sale of technical expertise, it will be expecting the big money , say 70-80% of the project to come from elsewhere. Typically from the host Government or other multilateral aid/development agencies
It’s a conceptual presentation by business development people and a useful example of ‘build it and they will come’ , helping validate the port in general terms, but it seems pretty clear that it isn’t quite what the Congolese press -or others – would have you believe.
ATB
TCF you can always contact AT if you're worried about the company. I'm happy with AT's approach. I prefer his approach to the majority of AIM shares that seemingly spike their own share price to then do a whip round for funds
Well Sidney we certainly hope so - currently its dead in the water at this current time. Hopefully as the company develops they will invest in a seriously good IR employee
extruder
I would be disappointed if was only 'most'.
I shall try harder to bring that up to 'all'.
Hi MM,
As on most occasions, you missed my points
(1): that this really is 'Last Chance Saloon' for C-B to get its act together. Most things in life happen when inclination meets opportunity.
(2) that our coshareholder in ZIOP has lots of other 'skin in the game' , which hopefully will encourage creative solutions to the many issues still facing us.
Never mind.
ATB
Well done MM. I think we have all long seen through this poster. Time to move on extruder.
Ah extruder, you missed the salient point in my post. Never mind.
The IMF's new man in Brazzaville (as of two weeks ago) said that the Congo and China talked at FOCAC and that a deal could be signed 'toute de suite' = immediately.
Apparently those talks crystallised the debts owing and the remaining steps to take to satisfy China over a debt deal (China being their largest creditor, of course).
My take is that the Congo's budget and costings are being settled this week as Ministers meet. As part of this the SEZ and new port are costed and budgeted allowing the Congo to advance those figures to both China and the IMF and, in my very humble and unresearched opinion, tick then final box or two before both a debt deal and formal agreement on the new port.
As ever very happy to join the dots and help fill in the gaps in your knowledge.