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Maybeonedaysoon
The ise troll is following me from forum to forum all because mommy and daddy didn't love him. Not my problem troll
And what mistakes have I made? Would it be buying legal and general at 166.06p?
"relax and it will all turn out out" yet again you can't even get simple English right.
I will give it look later.
I am hoping your right.
NAV continue to fall. If they vote to wind down then I would assume by the time it's done fintech would have recovered....please!
SD,
Your worries of the "unlisted shares in Fintechs" conundrum.... looking at their latest presentation deck (https://vpcspecialtylending.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/VPC-Investor-Presentation_FINAL-2.pdf) the gross asset allocation is 5% ordinary shares, 7% convertible debt, 4% warrants, 11% prefs and 70% debt. The 5% ordinary appears to be largely a FinTech position called "WeFox" which is an InsurTech growing fast and had a $4.5bn valuation in its series D funding in July 2022 and that this will fund them through to IPO (per Chrysalis who hold these).
Do you worry needlessly?
I do appreciate the deck is 7 months old but I expect the ratios haven't moved that much. The selling of its portfolio feels far less complicated if 95% are non ordinary holdings. Perhaps there's more room for optimism than the current share price suggests?
GLA
I don't think it's an absolute certainty. The 2 shareholders don't have massive shareholdings.
But the majority of shareholders are institutes.
The share price doesn't appear to reflect the probable wind down. As in the capital gains. The price has not risen since the announcement.
I am worried about the selling of the unlisted shares in fintechs. Who do they sell these minority stakes to?
I assume the vote is pretty much nailed on to vote in favour since it’s the big share holders that’s pushing this. Disappointing
Well we now have a date 12 June for the vote on wind down - circular due to be published on website
I think to be fair the Company brought this on themselves having failed to do anything about the large discount and the proposed 25% exit. Where is the long awaited circular? One assumes it will be issued before the AGM? I’m not unduly worried about my capital longer term but it will be the inconvenience of longer term holding to realise it. With the collapse of REITS it’s certainly getting harder to find quality income steams
I do agree with SD. Have been through three situations like this but with pretty well managed venture capital trusts which were obviously created with a different purpose and life expectancy. I would not buy more at this stage but place my bet that the exit will be properly managed while dividends be paid out...
This would normally be an excellent time to buy.
For every 100p worth of assets you could buy them for 80p. So it follows as they sell of the assets you will eventually gain 25% plus the dividends in-between. Also the loans are floating rate and the interest rate they are charging has risen from 10.5% in December 2021 to 13.8% now.
BUT
40% of the assets are shares in unlisted fintechs. With no controlling stakes. I would buy at a fire sale price only. Not sure how they are going to get a decent price for the them.
Probably why the share price hasn't done anything.
I came to the same conclusion. Staude Capital has completely screwed shareholders by forcing this. They have achieved nothing except to remove a solid dividend payer.
VSL will need to be as positive as it can be to wind down at the best price possible.
I'd imagine we'll get the regular 2p dividend for a short while, until the underlying investments can no longer generate it. Then it will reduce proportionately. But at the same time we might get quarterly or half-yearly capital returns. But that's just my guess having not really been through this sort of thing before.
Anyone have relevant experience here?
Very clear now that the Trust is going to be wound down. Very sad, this will drag on for years as the dividend gradually reduces and remaining monies are thrown back to us like well-picked bones. Perhaps the confirmation of the Board's intentions will be the catalyst for a rise in the SP once the true NAV is highlighted as part of the process but I somehow doubt it. Why would anyone invest here now, knowing the Trust is going to be liquidated?
Ends 2p down on a stupid UT for a single share sold.
Nice rise up 2.5% early on then fell 5%. Break even now.
Guitarsolo, from the MRCH final results posted today FYI:
"We continue to be pleased to see moves in the investment platform industry to democratise shareholder access for nominee holders with information being made more readily available by platforms to shareholders when companies have votes open and giving the ability for shareholders to participate in those votes. This past year in December, one of the largest platforms, Hargreaves Lansdown, joined Interactive Investor in offering an online voting service for its clients." K
Guitarsolo, yes I appreciate what you're saying about the fund shrinking if they buy back more shares, but the theory at least is if they bought back & cancelled 20% of shares the SP should rise by the same amount. It never does, unfortunately. I'm sure there are other IT's in a similar position to VSL re the discount to NAV, combining their portfolios to create a bigger, more efficient entity might just be the answer rather than selling the family silver?
Yes I'm with HL, they're pretty good at receiving instructions and voting on behalf of shareholders. In fact I think there's an option somewhere in account management for you to vote on resolutions at AGM/EGM's, I'll see if I can find it. K
Note the neo brockers will charge you fx fees for buying. HL doesn't because they are on the uk market.
FX fees for dividends but you can elect to have them in sterling. Not sure how if the broker is holding your shares but Hargreaves Lansdown said they would ask if my dividends can be paid in sterling avoiding Hargreaves fees.
Floating rate loans.
10.5% December 21 now 13.8%
Significant increase in dividends from BioPharma Credit and riverstone Credit Opportunities. IE they to are capturing the increase in interest rates. I assume vsl will have to increase its dividend.
Big problem is the unlisted shares and I think the market has realised it.
The company needs to explain the mechanism for selling them.
I think we MAY have seen the bottom of the market for fintech valuations. So a possible increase in NAV.
I am gambling by continuing to buy.
I have not seen any Significant move in the share price of riverstone Credit Opportunities or BioPharma despite there increase in dividends.
BioPharma is on a 6% discount. Large company considered low risk (matter of opinion)
Riverstone Credit Opportunities very small company, I don't consider their loans to be more risky. 100 million company on 20% discount if any company is likely to go into wind down it is Riverstone. Doesn't own shares just straight forward loans. Roughly 2 years duration.
K, well they did buy back a whole load of shares a few years ago. I want to say about 27% of the shares in issue (including a huge chunk off a distressed-sale Neil Woodford!). The problem with that is, if they keep doing it, the fund basically gets smaller and smaller assuming it continues to trade at a discount to NAV.
Perhaps the VSL boys will be smart and look to buy back shares at a 20%+ discount to NAV with funds as they mature rather than paying out the funds. It is a way of manipulating the shares and price that could make them (and us) a few extra quid.
Overall, I would be sad to see VSL go.
Does anyone invest through Hargreaves Lansdown and/or HSBC Invest Direct? I am minded to ask them to vote against the wind-down.....
Guitarsolo
Guitarsolo, this looked like bad news from the moment it was announced and has continued to worsen ever since. If the Board were concerned about the gap to the NAV, why didn't they start buying back & cancelling shares? Far better, from the point of view of an income-seeking shareholder, than giving up the ghost & selling off (cheaply, as now appears likely). As adv11 says, we're likely to still be here several years down the line, picking over the bones of a once-reliable income generator driven to closure by the impatient greed of a few institutional investors. FWIW I will vote against the motion to close, not that it will do any good. Such a waste when decent, reliable income is so hard to come by now.
Anything strange going on with the small 1 and 2 trades ? ..anyone more knowledgeable than me know what’s going on there.
Frustrating share price, just wish they’d get on and announce what they plan on doing…
I’ve been tempted to keep adding but held back because of the uncertainty…building a position in Srei and adding to Epic instead even though they too are raising uncertainties.
I'm no expert, just a long term holder who was happy with the dividends rolling in. There seems little incentive for the board to push VSL now. A long wind down will keep their wages coming in and probably produce the best outcome all round. Personally, I suspect we will still be here in 3 years, getting gradual returns of capital, and diminishing dividends. Then when it becomes too costly to keep the listing, they will take the company private to finish the job off.
But, as I am often told, I know nothing. Does Richard Levy still have all his holding ? Without checking I think his last buy was around 68p. If he hasn't sold any, then at least the assets worth a lot more than the share prcice
Morning VSLers.
I am starting to become increasingly worried that VSL will push ahead with its proposed wind down simply because Staude Capital et al have pished them off and the fund, whilst nice, is small potatoes for Victory Capital.
When Staude made it's proposal for the 25% return at NAV it was a different financial world. Lenders were stable, VSL's equity investments were relatively predictable etc. Now they are not. We have had three mid-sized banks go bust or need rescuing and of course Credit Suisse. Eyes are now on Deutsche Bank.
VSL's equity investments in fintech would not realise anything like what they would have done 12 months ago. If the wind down happens in this kind of environment it will be miles away from "realising shareholder value". We will have ended up shooting the cash cow (8pps) and selling the equity investments for cents on the dollar of what they could realise if we chose the moment to sell them rather than have a forced timetable. Staude's intervention has been very bad for shareholders.
I would really like to hear that VSL suspend the wind down until the environment is better suited to it (at least). Sadly, I suspect the fund isn't worth that hassle.
What do others think? I suspect most of us with hold through nominee accounts, should we be mobilising our voices?
Guitarsolo
Maybe just a few more 10.2% dividend
Pity