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Croissant, meant to sent this last weekend but time etc. Also work in Blue Chip, but SaaS for legal. I do not live locally but your post last week made me go hunting as I do know a lot of consultants at Derriford who live in Noss Mayo etc and surrounding east side of Plymouth and near the TUN facility.
- Plenty of links about the local view of truck movements - many not happy with the ask of increase and from planning applications, local parish minutes etc this has always been a big issue, so I assume during the consultation they may well have spoken up. I can't find anything concrete but if you look at google maps and some of the legacy mines in the area there are a lot on a small space all concentrated onto some minor roads and a few choke points - you can imagine being a resident and seeing an aplication for a 4x increase - whilst other mines/operations have already been moving trucks. Would be interesting and I could not find, what permits are granted to all those other mines regarding no of trucks (who knows what was granted back 10, 15, 20 years or more back)
- What was interesting is the devolved authority down to the parish level - these are educated people who can have a very strong opinion on things - not in my back yard etc. and Whitehall unless they press the 'needed for war button' do not have control. Looking at parish notes back to when Wolf was operating clearly they had to appease many of these parish councils - and what might be best for industry/country may not come out for the sake of quiet roads and low vibrations
- Todays comments have been interesting. Sadly I agree with many that what is best for innovation and growth seems stifled as we allow decisions made not out of what is best but a local view
This was more in answer to your post about 'anybody local with knowledge' and I found a bunch of links to previous complaints re truck and low freqency noise
-
@RubDeBhudda - thanks for the insights.
The trucks movements were initially applied for as a variation to the planning dept as opposed to the EA. They ended up increasing the load size and keeping the existing 50 truck movements, and it was approved. They can apply for other variations at a later date if they need to.
I was really looking to see if the the locals were sufficiently upset with the WOLF operation to form opposition groups who might input their discontent into the EA process. It looks like we're relatively free from that. Mind you there's 200-300 jobs on the line - which I suspect is going to be a big boost to the local economy.
You mention links? If you can share that would be much appreciated. ATB
Just for perspective. WBB and Imerys et al have been operating China Clay operations in this area (Wotter, Lee Moor, Cadover) for DECADES . As a whipper snapper I went to the Cadover mine in the early 80s on a school field trip. These guys have been moving product out by road via the Plympton / Borringdon route.... There's no other way. Mineral extraction is part of the fabric of this area.
I guess the issue is in the increase in volume, but clay has provided revenue and employment as a local industry. For all the opposition noted there is also likely some element of support.
ATB LB
Will have to do it over weekend, I found a bunch but did not save. I do seem to remember it was Wolf posts and it was low frequency noise - I think it made some people quite unwell and that was the cause of the issue. One like this, that caused me to go backwards. https://consult.environment-agency.gov.uk/psc/pl7-5bw-drakelands-restoration-limited2/supporting_documents/Application%20Bespoke%20%2024.11.2023%20Request%20for%20Information%20Response.pdf
My looking went down two routes - truck movements and noise and what was there from past parish meetings and my mates views locally
- I get the bigger trucks, less movement and thats Wolf/Tungsten W. What I was looking at was the area as a whole - and I could not find anything about the other 4 or 5 mines grouped, therefore all the trucks that a local village would contend with and i doubt they would know who was who - just 200 a day from all 5 potentially. I was wondering if those other mines had more lenient (past agreed0 movements.
- I dug around on the noise as there was one or two parish posts and will post - busy today
- So opposition groups did not come up, but all it takes is one from the parish to say 'it will be like Wolf'
Anyway, will have a dig on the weekend
OK, wanted to bookmark. Here are 4, in each case i then took info, names and then went off down routes looking for more, esp opposition on LFN, concerns etc.
2015 Noise - Living Hell
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-34707712
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3297754/Bad-vibrations-Couple-forced-home-rumbles-bodies-shake-uncontrollably.html
2018 Parish
https://www.shaughpriorparish.gov.uk/edit/uploads/209_567889359.pdf
2021 reopening concern
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/plymouth-news/villagers-fear-hemerdon-tungsten-mine-5415785
OK, last post, https://www.facebook.com/sparkwellpc/?locale=en_GB see posts. Sparkwell Parish Council website seems to be down so I cant get the minutes I read. But I did go off and find the companies that the counsellors work on/for and that was interesting - one in particular sits as a director of 23 local companies (not TW), I was trying to find if parish members sat on the boards of the other mines/conflict of interest etc
Sparkwell Parish Council
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---PLEASE NOTE--- Time is running out to submit responses. If you wish to make a comment please submit via the Planning Portal ( https://planning.devon.gov.uk/PlanDisp.aspx?AppNo=DCC/4365/2023 ) prior to 30th November 2023.
Sparkwell Parish Council have also created an Objection Form to aid Parishioners should they wish to comment on the current Tungsten West planning application. Please follow the link below.
Morning all. The more I read about this, with regards to the parish council, it sounds to me that they don't want it on their doorsetep. This will never happen. We should have been made aware of this. I've been a developer for many years, and take it from me, if you haven't got the parish council on your side your basically stuffed.
@RDB - excellent sleuthing there. Another piece of the puzzle. For those of a nervous disposition, remember: this was approved. ATB
@RDB - This is interesting from a timing perspective. There is an outside chance that the Parish Council meeting on the 22nd April may have resulted in a submission to the EA. There's a 10day window for action. However, if you're keeping up with these comms you'll recall that I contacted the EA on the 7th and queried the date change on the MPF permit application. During that call they revealed that the decision to extend the deadline had been taken 6 days earlier and as I said, I was told it was due to a couple of LFN docs which hadn't been circulated. If we take that as an honest answer the delay to the 30th will have nothing to do with the Parish Council.
It would be interesting to see if either TWL or the EA were present at that meeting on the 22nd, and now that the Parish Council website is up and running again, whether they'll attend the next meeting on the 14th May where Hemerdon mine is item 9 on the agenda.
WOLF certainly soiled the bed linen with this type of behaviour. However, reporting in these papers tends to sensationalise. It's understandable that the locals are worried and why the EA are being so cautious. WOLF caused serious pollution issues. TWL had better manage their plant substantially more professionally than WOLF did otherwise they'll cause an uproar. You must expect as well that those badly affected last time will be very sensitive to its operation. All that said I cant anything here to prevent reopening.
@RDB - another excellent find - you can see from that email that in November the TWL team are stressing to the EA the importance of urgently issuing the draft permit. It only took another 3 months for the lovely EA to issue it. We are at the mercy of these regulators until they give their nod of approval. Given the the CMS you would have hoped Central Government would have streamlined these applications to fast track these projects. Nevertheless decision time is here. If the EA baulk again then I think they'll just hold the project under till it drowns, but I don't see that as the outcome. The EA are out of excuses and soon to be out of time in making taking decision, and as they are minded to grant the permit, without substantial reasons not to, they will issue the permit.
Good morning all. I don't think the problem lies with EA, it lies with the parish. If there's enough signatures this is dead in the water. It's a big oversight on their behalf.
@gingy
Not complete oversight. There has been an active community engagement program targeted at Sparkwell, Cornwood, Shaugh Prior, Colebrook in recent weeks. At least an attempt is being made imo.
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/tungsten-west-limited_we-are-excited-to-invite-you-to-join-us-at-activity-7180831329477890048-6uW7?utm_source=share&utm_medium=member_android
ATB LB
@gingy - better to look on the bright side, IMO. Don't suffer twice, mate.
Is there anyone on this discussion board who could attend the Parish Council meeting? It would be useful to gauge the mood and see if the EA or TWL are present, and if so what their contributions are.
As LB has mentioned TWL have launched a community relations drive so they are aware of the importance of this and are trying to build positive relationships with the local community. But don't forget 200-300 jobs will be very positive for that community once TWL reopen Hemerdon.
The common theme of concern from both the EA and the PC is that of pollution from Hemerdon operations. If TWL can assuage those fears and concerns about the past pollution issues and demonstrate (very important criteria) that things will now be managed properly eg they have solutions identified to prevent a reoccurrence, and that they will be actively monitoring to ensure these issues should they reoccur will be dealt with swiftly; then despite grumblings from either or both parties the permit will be issued.
The way that the SLT at TWL have approached this project since Gawthorpe took over has been keenly targeted at the issues of importance, and finding a way through the maze of red tape and the public relations nightmare left by WOLF. I think that the people in charge at TWL are first class individuals with a track record fully capable of getting that mine operational. Not only that, they do have solutions to the pollution concerns raised, they will have active monitoring and they do have a range of contingency measures available to deploy to further reduce their environmental footprint if needed.
The case that TWL are making to reopen that mine is very strong. However, it's a guaranteed certainty that there will be grumbling at every stage in this project. Hopefully though there wont ever be too many grumbles to prevent it reaching fruition.
Lets see what happens on the 22nd. ATB
Correction - next meeting is the 14th May 2024
Kind regards
Thank you Croissant, that helps put my mind at ease. Let's hope it all goes well for us at the meeting. Have yourself a good weekend.
@Croissant - I'll try and get down to it. Tuesday is going to be tight so no promises.
ATB LB
@lb - thanks for your efforts, mate. i hope it's lovely weather for you so you can have a pint afterwards.
the key issues of concern which i've distilled from all of this information are the following:
1) audible noise including beating;
2) lfn including vibration;
3) dust; and finally
4) ****nic
the ea are minded to grant the mpf permit being satisfied that all four of these types of pollution are being managed correctly by the twl proposed modifications to plant and management functions.
for the pc to have an impact with the ea and derail the mpf application they must:
a) convince the ea that the proposals made by twl are insufficient to manage these pollutants; and/or
b) identify something else currently missed by twl and the ea in this iterative review process such that the ea feels warrants further study.
so this is really what you need to be on the lookout for. the only other refuge to prevent this getting green-lit imo is for the pc to ask for an extension. however, i've had a good read through the pc minutes (all of these are available up to the last couple of meetings). hemerdon mine has been a permanent fixture on the agenda. if you read through those minutes, although there are concerns about it's operation, they do not evidence any hostility to the project. there are a number of concerns outside of the scope of the mpf permit application such as road widening, rewilding on road verges and other eco-related matters, but the core concerns of the ea aren't really mentioned. in fact the councillors present are interested in the re-employment of staff once funding is secured. so like i said elsewhere there are big positives to the local community from a working mine at hemerdon.
another interesting tidbit is that the ea wrote to twl and apologized to them for taking so long to get back to them flowing the mpf permit review at the end of 2023. twl indicated that the ea would issue the draft permit by e/o jan 2024 - it took till e/o march. now we have this latest 4 week extension which appears to be yet another slip up by the ea. if you want to grind your teeth on something its the ea not the pc which is the threat. oh an one final point following the closure of the public consultation period (30/05/24) twl have indicated a 4 week review period before its issued. so earliest sight of the mpf permit will be beginning of july!! tranche e for a further £1million coming soon i suspect. atb
@Croissant and all.
I've freed up time to go to the meeting tomorrow. 99%sure I'll make it. TW is item 9 on the agenda. Item 8 just before it is a Public Forum session – to consider questions from public.
This blog post from Sparkwell Parish Council is interesting...
www.sparkwellparishcouncil.com/blog
It's not entirely clear from the blog post if the PC are behind the permit or not. I'll try and gauge it tomorrow and report back.
I'm sure it's going to be a blast.... It's probably going to be like something out of the Archers.🤣
Until tomorrow.
ATB LB
@LB - Nice one LB. The Archers!! Lol. Try not to nod off. ATB
Evening, what needs to be considered, are the noise issues highlighted in the LFN report, although there are a number of commercial/farms within the (close) area listed, there are also key facilities near by which have also submitted noise complaints ( looking at the report ) such as boringdon hall and both golf courses which are within a mile, so I’m not under the impression the only issue is the parish council.
This aside the report seems to be one sided and has gaps in engineering judgement as the standards which were used to close production ( previously )seem to have been dismissed ( not sure if the EA has agreed to this ) I can understand why looking at the report in general but I can only see the EA having questions over this document if this is the case.
Why has everyone gone to ground? What happened with the parish meeting and all that stuff? Have you all been abducted by aliens?!
@lovelyboy I'm guessing you didn't get along to the parish council meeting, but I see you have posted an interesting link on the CUSN board to the UK mining conference. In particular I see that there are site visits available to sites including Hemerdon (TUN) (11th June) which might be of interest to people here,
https://ukminingconference.co.uk/express-your-interest/