Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
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I also think how can people so smart get it so wrong. It's not that this type of finance does not have form and past bad outcomes could have predicted the mess we ended up in especially with the jackals of AIM looking to feast on the wounded beast for short term gain. I recall the board making a specific point that its was flexible and only funds that were required would be drawn down which gives your theory legs. But then I think that people, no matter how smart need to have a business rather than a scientific brain/experience to navigate such treacherous waters and this lack of appointment was the root cause.
Just in my view
Hi Celtic - any intellectual property Sierra was able to develop whilst 737 was licensed to them should be handed over to the CRT Pioneer Fund as they are the owners of 737 (we are only financial beneficiaries if there's a commercial license). This doesn't stop anyone from patenting a novel use of the compound e.g. the Celtic007 Pharmaceuticals & Dangerous Toy Company Ltd doesn't own the rights to 737 but you could patent a use which if approved means someone would have to pay you a fee if their use infringes your patent.
If you look at another patent (see below) and click on the 'show all events' filter in the right-hand column, you'll see an entry dated 5/2/24 that says the patent is assigned to CRT Pioneer Fund.
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20210077499A1/en?oq=US20210077499A1
It's possible all IP has been handed over by Sierra but the admin side is yet to filter through to all the patents. I still think our mystery licensee is Sierra (again) as they have so much work in the compound & patents.
Just my thoughts on this one Potnak.
I would suggest that it may very well be that 1802 has a higher selectivity over Jak3 than 1801
As far as l can remember there was a Jak 3 inhibitor Ruxolitinib ( not sure if spelled correctly)
that was used and approved in some haematology cancers some years ago. I also am of the belief that it was to be approved for T ALL cancer just a few years back.
The point here is that whilst Jak3 may well be adept at cancers it does knacker the immune system leading to increased risk of infections.
Jak3 can only pair with Jak1.
I would suggest also along with T ALL cancer it may prove effective in colon or bowel cancer.
Now, UC and CD have a high tenancy to lead to colon or bowel cancer.
Such is the close link here between the 2 that dependant on severity 1802 may prove to have greater efficacy in UC and CD.
I may be off my nut, but is just my way of thinking on this.
Regards
Surely when sierra handed back then all patents went back to us? What use is them having a patent but not that molecule? Thanks
Anyone got views on the idea that a deal of some sort was considered so close that the RF finance was “just a financial gap filler” that went wrong? It’s all really messed with my head and investment!!
Volume would suggest another 200k sold today.
If anything was to trigger a TO, it's the similarities in 1801 and 2. It would make sense to buy up both, to lock in all indications. If SAR do on license 1801, then 1802, if it goes elsewhere may become a competitor and it gets messy. I don't think the TO scenario is likely but the chance to cover dozens of indications, immune and cancer must be on some radar somewhere.
Looks like Sierra are keeping a tight grip on patents covering 737. The link below shows a Japanese application was published on 30/1/24 so they're obviously happy to keep paying for the patent process though not sure if it's now effectively assigned to CPF.
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/result.jsf?_vid=P22-LVMG62-27469
More than likely will go to different partners.
SDC1802 may well prove very encouraging in auto immune. Whilst similar in the compounds there does exist a difference.
Bare in mind that 1802 was being tested in SLE.
It is not beyond probability that preclinical data on 1802 may well indicate areas of auto immune that 1802 would have greater efficacy in.
However, even if this was not the case, anybody that the licensed was obtained by, could not use the 1802 compound for auto immune conditions, without additional payment for the use of.
Had this patent not been obtained, in theory a licence owner could trial in Indications and may be obtain approval for clinical use in auto immune. In this case Sareum would receive no funds as not in the patent description.
My own personal opinion is that SDC1801 would lack efficacy on cancer. I may be wrong.
We have a point here with auto immune in that could 1802 prove competitive against 1801 on some auto immune conditions such as UC or CD?
We will get to know in time.
Regards
Me too. It must be close now…
Be glad when this overhang is exhausted and RF are out of the picture so that the SP can begin to rise again
Hi SOG or anyone who has, an opinion. With the latest patent news covering 1802 for immune too. Does that make it more or less likely that the TYK2 compounds could go to separate partners? Also, does that mean that 1801 could cover some cancers?
No adverse effects up to 300mg per day.
Thst on its own is satisfactory.
In addition we await PK and biomarker data which will give an insight as to the most promising Indications that SDC1801 is likely to have most efficacy in on top of Psoriasis.
Silver, just sell at £3 when we get there? I know this is a big if but if 1801 and 2 are good. £300 million is nowhere near enough for two tyk2 and a 27% share in a 737. Frankly, if 737 comes good in p2 combo trials. You've got your £300 there.
Boyasaka - the BoD already has enough info for them to announce they are looking to start P2a trials this year but you ask what if the data isn't positive? Without positive data the BoD will have announced their own demise which would be an odd thing to do.
300 million is about £3 a share. Whilst £10 a share and a market cap of 1 billion would be ideal (Thoth2’s target) frankly if someone took us out in one go at £3 I’d accept that now although I know some would prefer £5 so they can at least show some profit after getting in during 2021.
SDC-1801 moving steadily through the clinic (P3)
If the Phase Ia data are not positive?
Yes, in terms of total time to trial 2a skips over a fair bit. It's a good move IMO, and I think the board are using the likes of Sotyktu as validation to skip to 2a. I'm hoping, if we are in licencing talks that the fact BMS paif $4 billion for Sotyktu warrants a decent upfront for Sareum.
Yet by skipping P1b, the net result must be we've brought P2a forward. Mind you, time is an illusion so.....
The 2a trial has already slipped in terms of timescales so will probably start at the end of this year. Based on that we'll be lucky to get a data readout before the end of 2025. Hopefully, funding aside, 1802 will be in trials too plus 737 news? The company have been very clear that funding is needed for 2a. Take that out of the equation and punters will start buying again.
Hi Potnak - with P2a likely to start this year, 2026 might be quite pessimistic for getting the data readout on 24 patients but who knows?
One big thing that will play into our hands is the fact we're skipping P1b. This seems to be a rare event in the pharma world and it'll get the attention of many interested parties therefore I don't see us going it alone. Yes, a partner will want a percentage ownership of 1801 (or whatever) but if it adds value and means no dilution then many will be able to live with that outcome. I just hope any deal isn't as opaque as the 737 one!
As for buys drying up, I guess that's maybe to be expected. Those of us who had funds at the start of the month will have bought asap and now I think potential new investors are holding off until P1a results are announced. Positive results will greatly derisk things and will point to the BoD's next intentions. If we partner with a major pharma for P2a then they may also be interested in 1802 and therefore by default, the whole company.
If we go into 2a fully funded and not dilluted. You will get your £300 million market cap without selling up.
I would be happy if Sareum sold up lock stock and barrel (everything! including the kitchen sink) for 300m at phase 1a. Like many my patience has its limits and I certainly won’t be waiting longer than the end of this year before making a call on what to do with this investment.
How does the company keep afloat until 2a data readout? Could easily run into 2026. How do they push 1802 along? They need 18 months, minimum of trial and operating costs. Between 6 and £10 million. Even with a licenced funded trial, we'd still need £3 million to cover running costs, salaries, etc.. Why do you think buyers have dried up? My number 1 rule for AIM investing is checking when the last raise was and looking when the next one is needed. The wrap and all the extra 40 million shares only gets us to the end of this year. The board could try and cherr the sp to a pound then raise but the discount would still be huge. So anyone buying around a pound could be 20% or more underwater after a raise. The board need to solve the funding problem and An on license now is really the only sensible option.
Hi Potnak - They stated that if they used the full £5m from RF plus £1.6m tax credits then that'd see P1b covered plus spare cash 'til the end of 2024. The original plans for P1b required 24 volunteers and it's still 24 for P2a so how do you arrive at us now needing £10m?