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We seem to have the development of what seems to be two different types of gassification technology. The US Gassification which can be seen by Way2H, Sierra Energy and SGH requires the vapourising of the feedstock to remove the harmful gases. The vapour has to then be cooled so that the Hydrogen can be separated. I am not convinced by the viability of this method. Sierra Energy are the most advanced user of this technology but does not seem to have had much success with it beyond funding from the US Defense Department. The UK gassification technology which is used by EqTec and PHE uses Ultra Heating that turns the feedstock into a gas from which hydrogen can be extracted or used to create electricity or both. In the case of both PHE and Eqtec research is assisted by university tie ups and both have commercial contracts.
It would be interesting to see in the coming years which technology dominates.
Whenever I've looked into any alternative gasifying technology phe has always come out cheaper by some distance and more efficient too.
Jabberba .Can you remind me what the cost per Kg of hydrogen is predicted. Thanks
The Way2H tech seems roughly similar to PHE apart from the use of the "ceramic beads" . One point I do remember about the PHE method is that the feedstock is first "out gassed" in a near vacume chamber before entering the gasification chamber. This means little or no air contamination .I have not seen this mentioned in other methods. The SGH2 is completely different ,using a quite old method of much higher temperature (3500-4000deg compared to PHE 1000deg C) produced by plasma torches. It still seems to be favoured by American firms. I remember this was tried at a plant in the UK in the North East on a very large scale plant, but did not come to fruition. Another project also tried it backed by W2T but also folded when the first one failed.
Its funding was raised last July to vet the system...........
Breakthrough Energy Ventures may already have PHE on it's watch list?
https://www.bizjournals.com/sacramento/news/2019/07/29/davis-based-sierra-energy-raises-33-million.html
https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/biomass/waste-to-energy.php
The feedstock is shredded and dried...................
This process is already carried out in UK, waste dried prior to transport to be burned in the nuclear power stations.....................DYOR
Operastar - In relation to your 17.35 post hydrogen using the PHE technology is expected to be in the £5-8 range. I am not sure who will be setting the price.
Site location since 4 December 2019...........DYOR
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fort+Hunter+Liggett/@35.9970867,-121.2367871,1264m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x8092eb229548f499:0x285ac595d895540d!8m2!3d36.0086825!4d-121.2369266
10-tonne-per-day........................
https://usarsustainabilitydotcom.files.wordpress.com/2017/11/fort-hunter-liggett-solid-waste-program-and-waste-gasification-system-for-fixed-installation-on-site-distributed-generation.pdf
High fixed costs for 10 tonne per day.................
High cost to transport waste stock to site for testing the system.......
Fort Hunter Liggett is one of the least-densely populated Army bases in the nation, housing only about 250 permanent Army and civil personnel. During training seasons, however, this number can climb up to around 4,000 residents.
Don't think Fort Hunter Liggett base will use Way2H
It had about 27 buildings that needed power up grading..............
Published on 27 Dec 2011...............................................907 views
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE63s1zW-gU
More Microgrid information.........................
https://microgridknowledge.com/military-microgrid-fort-hunter-liggett/
Fort Hunter Liggett.......... Twitter site, no talk of any power cuts..............
Thanks for that Stokey 12 .Price comparisons are near impossible due to changes in exchage rates and sizes of plant but £5-8 /kg for PHE seems very high compared to $2 (£1.6 @ 1.22$/£) for SGH2 (claimed) and $5-3 for Ways2H . For ME ,it does underline the absolute urgency that the PHE/ W2T merger and the completion of funding of the FOAK DMG MUST be done ASAP (if not sooner) or other competitors will overtake us.
operastar in relation to your 00.16 post in my view there is little prospect of competitors overtaking PHE. As an example SGH2 are not due to have a commercial unit operating for about two years by which time I would expect most of the Peel DMG units to have been built. In any case it is worth noting that in most cases the target feedstock is not unrecycable plastic so it would not be a case of direct competition for feedstock. Not that the feedstock PHE would be using is in short supply so it could support a number of companies.
I am sorry to be pessimistic about this Stokey . My view is that the FOAK DMG will have to start construction at least by autumn this year and then run for at least a year for testing/ snagging before other customers will risk financing the other 10 ,or is it 11 units in the pipeline. (I'm not sure what has or will happen to the insurance wrap scheme). I was very irritated by the merger plan when announced and considered it a side show to getting the FOAK built . I now understand from David Ryan that the merger is a necessity for Peel ( and I guess instigated by them ) as a prerequisite for getting the funding for the building. From endless posts here I understand that this cannot happen before endless wrangles go on ,mainly between lawers and THEN an EGM (or AGM?) to explain the deal and then get agreement of sharholders. In the meantime the EPC ( whoever they are, anyone know?) has to sign off on all the contractor bids for all the parts of the system before the financing deal can be concluded and construction started. Judging by the progress to date, I think a two year period for all this is being very optimistic, nearer three I think .As has been said Lawyers love to wrangle. I really hope I am wrong and Peel particularly get their corporate finger out and bang heads together.
operastar in relation to your 12.37 post all of the first 11 units are part of the Peel plastics parks initiative and I therefore believe that Peel would be funding them from its own resources without going to outside funders with the possible exception of HMG. It is on this basis that I would expect the majority if not all of the initial 11 sites to have been done before any competitors are fully operational.
Peel are taking on the role of project managers because they can see the potential. They have alluded to 100 units in the UK. We are in discussions with international project managers in Spain, Australia and the Philippines.
What is the share price telling you without any news?
With regard to the Feedstock. Ways2H quote Municipal solid waste including plastic . PHE are concentrating on the plastic mountain. They have mentioned that Biomass could be used however. Ways2H does look like a direct competitor to me . It is about the same size ( 8-50 US tons /day waste input) and also hydrogen output (1.4-1.75 tonnes/day)
The SGH2 process is different using plasma torches at much higher temperatures (3500-4000 deg. C) and on a much bigger scale ( see previous post) i.e. 114 tonnes/day bio waste in producing 11 tonnes/day hydrogen. This does seem to indicate size matters i.e a ratio of 10:1 approx. for SGH2 and 35:2 or 17.5:1 for PHE (they quoted 25: 1 orriginaly) and for Ways2H (Approx) . I hope you understand why I am so concerned about the timescale now.
OK Stokey. Ref. your 14.31 post I hope you are right about that.
USA................
Untested dreams, without enough funding...................IMHO