INTU.L Share Chat (INTU)

Different shares possibly can come up some day under similar name (although it's a poor practice to pick up a name with spoiled reputation), but not these since company is bankrupt, previously issued shares are absolutely worthless, value is nil.
As per last administrator report (Interpath - Aug/2022) - pages 3 to 5: on average (weighted) unsecured creditors are getting back roughly only 5p in £1.

Is there any possible chance of these shares coming back again

INTU' case Administrator (Interpath purchased from KPMG) says unsecured creditors (including revolving credit facility lenders) are expected to receive only 7p for each 1£ owed to them (page 11 + appendix 9 of Administrator's progress report published on 03 Aug 2021) obviously leaving nothing to shareholders despite seemingly high net asset valuation (£2B NAV on 2019 report)

There is no hope, Intu is being disbanded and the shopping centres will each be fully independent from each other within a couple of months. What was 'intu' is gradually being dismantled to provide an orderly transition for the centre's to become independent, and once that process is complete it will then just be a case of dealing with any final shut-down measures for what was Intu, whilst the centre's themselves continue to function in their own right.

It doesn't change a thing for shareholders, size of gross equity is too low, if you adjust to net equity for losses, asset devaluations (market value or retail spaces is hammered) and writedowns (failed rent collections/AR, defaults) then equity gets negative (in range of -1B to -0.7B from +1.8B reported in dec-2019) meaning existing shares value is zero anyway, even debt holders are hit because there's no way they can recover full face value of it.

"- British shopping centre operator Intu Properties is in talks with shareholders and potential new investors to raise funds to shore up its balance sheet."

https://www.marketscreener.com/news/Companies-seeking-restructuring-to-secure-post-COVID-future--31192429/

From what i understand,
In voluntary administration..."voluntary" key word.
Company being restructured.
Talks ongoing as to exit strategy from admin. Believe discussions concerning liquidation on Aug 11th.
The above little snippet suggests maybe no liquidation and looking at a return to market?
Any thoughts?

Not sure why this just suddenly reappeared...
Sent a shiver down my spine remembering my first complete loss here.

Just in case anyone is in the same boat, I have a question....
Without being able to sell the shares for Intu that show in my trading account, I would at least like to be able to use the capital loss to offset capital gains (to stay below the tax threshold for 2020/21). Does anyone have any idea if you can write-off the full value when you haven't sold them, with no way to sell them, and still showing in my account (with a value of about 1.8p each)?

What does this mean?

Shouldn't we as share holders get something back due to the fact that Intu already came to an agreement with creditors and are now keeping four of their centers. Surely if they don't sell up all of their properties and carry on trading than we should still get something

what does this means to share holders? Does it going to help or still current shares are worth less?

www.propertyweek.com/finance/intu-sgs-confirms-agreement-of-range-of-financial-measures-to-protect-it-from-default/5109754.article

It will to let me PM you

Hi

I am new to all of this and I have been following this board now as I lost shares Intu. It was the first ever stock I purchased and really am not sure what the next step is. I only lost a small amount so it’s not too bad. After seeing your message I’m curious as to what can be possibly done. This won’t allow me to message your privately so would appreciate any information here please

Thanks in advance

Hi all,
I am trying to recover my shares in INTU thru a solicitor, it may still be hope. If anyone is interested to join in pm.. but quick.
Administrator just released proposal and it's looking bad for shareholders.
Cheers

Will we see these shares again or get our money back ???????

https://intu-public.s3.amazonaws.com/c/admin/200626-letter-to-tenants-customers.pdf
Are amazon their web host?? Or what connection does amazon have with intu?

This is a test

it was cancelled from London stock exchange. the news said yesterday

Suddenly my dashboard shows Intu bid price at 177.60.. called broker and they are investigating.. anyone else have similar posting?

the news said intu shares had benn cancelled,so all shares is ZERO

Do you want to buy mine ;-)

Wake up and smell the coffee

I am on IG and am now able to trade on this if I wanted to.

Why would that be?

Risky To be honest BL are only looking to asset manage .They have enough retail on their plate

Sovereign Centros are the interesting 1 backed by Orion .they are a sort of "Son of Intu " Orion of course dropped £100m on their shareholding here The very same who welched on the deal with Hammerson on the large portfolio

The Canadians are being flagged up as the villains in the piece for only putting their hands up at the last moment to bring the show tumbling down

Shrewd ,imagine being in that position holding those cards and how they could have benefited
Convenient scapegoat as if it wasn't them surely another in a game of Whack A Mole

Priceless the Canadians being ****ged off for being businesslike for keeping their cards close to their chest. What did they expect ?

Well JustMatt, the answer to your question would seem to be yes, at least in the short term. As you know, UK online retailing accounted for 18% of the total market in 2019. Then in May, the number for April, the first full month of lockdown, the online sales total was announced at 31% of all retail sales. Close to double.

The number for May must be due anytime soon. IMO it's a stretch that all these new online customers will remain online. People enjoy visiting centres. but I'd imagine that some people forced to shop online will stay there. Maybe around 25%, but that's just a wild guess.

Speculating like this Matt on the future of brick centres was what, for me, made Intu such a dodgy punt, starting in 2018. Online penetration has to stop eventually, but there's no logical or analytical way of coming up with a remotely accurate number. for where it will stop Thus, there's no way of analysing how much shopping space any town or city needs. If nobody knows how many shops will be needed in, say, 10 years time, then there's no way of accurately valuing the remaining centres, or deciding which need to be demolished and rebuilt as housing, offices, whatever.

It will be interesting to see what the bond and mortgage holders do with the assets that are now being dumped into their laps. Were I still practising, and asked for my views, my suggestion would be to hold the asset, if you can get a reasonably positive cash-flow. Why? Simply because right now just has to be the absolute bottom of a truly dreadful market. Bottom fishers from around the world will descend on any weak financiers holding Intu centres and pick their pockets clean. Online plus Covid = the perfect storm and history suggests that on a 3 to 5 year view, the investment market has to improve.

But what do I know? As events play out, I'll be glued to HMSO's ongoing results. Tenants on rent-strikes. Landlords legal rights shredded at 3 monthly intervals. Bondholders taking centres off the Administrators. It's all a massive Muldoon's Picnic, as my Irish forebears liked to say. And a gambling speculator's paradise, as the Intu share price and trading volumes have shown, once the SP broke under 10 pence.

Visited Intu centre today. Primark queue large but resy shops fairly quiet and lot still closed. Queues to get into other shops, lots of one way systems, very odd atmosphere, not enjoyable or an experience! Made me wonder what the future of these shopping centres will look like. Has online shopping become even more the norm and killed physical shopping?

Gewillia

With most of the centres already earmarked with new managers and potential suitors already lined up today';s eventuality has been played out for some time behind closed doors . You would never have guessed it from the BODS tone
The appointment of the rainmakers Moelis and Clifford Chance in April affirms that the bondholders had broken loose.

The non appearance of Whittaker

Maybe as you say the appointment of the makeweight Roberts and the thundering herd of shorters which followed makes for an interesting story. Its almost as every step Roberts made was hammering in another nail in the coffin . Certainly not CEO material

You homed in quite quickly on the Derby deal and rightly ask the question how on earth would someone of Whittaker's stature sign off such a bad deal . How did it get past the professional advisers.In addition no effort was made last Spring to get shot of any other UK centres when they had half a chance

Like a pantomime They dont seem to have made any real effort just like going through the motions
Its almost as if the ship was set on course to hit the rocks

Certainly a bad whiff As you say there is still a story to be told

Shareholders effectively treatedikemushrooms

Intu RIP you made a few idiots on the board rich, they will probably go out and do the same again, buy high wil
Th shareholders borrowed money, on the premise everything will stay the same or get better. No real risk assessment no devils advocate on the non execs, just a bunch of idiots out of law school or with an “Economics’ degree. every board should have a manager who has worked his way up through that company, who cannot be fired for expressing his opinions. Probably talking to myself. PS I made a few quid here before the melt down in March anyone in here after March seriously needs to get out more.

Yea like I said don’t hold past friday I did With a few hundred After reducing just incase lost a small amount nothing I care about nothing I regret it was a gamble people who brought seeing that spike at 9p or whatever I feel for those who lost money but who didn’t do any research and saw a 300% gain at one point and jumped in without research I hope they can learn from this. The risk was their we all said it some were positive some where negative the rns wasn’t helpful it was how you read it very misleading with the arguing for 15 months not 18 months even I thought well that’s better than the 12 I was expecting but was not to be. Please guys DYOR and never risk what you can’t afford to looose captain has called to abandon ship I’ll see you around somewhere else hopfully and we can make some good money!

I don't see how anyone can blame anyone else or the government for what has happened here, bottom line is anyone who invested in this share knew it was in trouble and extremely high risk, and that you could lose your money if you pressed the buy button, it's not nice when people lose their hard earned money but with high risk comes a high chance you will do your dough.
So you pay your money and you take your chance, i'm sure most of you investors will move on given a bit of time on lower risk shares and GL

Did any of you guys manage to jump ship when it touched 9p because that would have seen a 50% increase?

I ditched UK Companies 10 years ago with the exception of a couple of fast growth Biotehchs, in the last 10 years I've made 780% return on FAANG and North American growth stocks, the UK is a waste of time.

Looking ahead as best I can, I can't bring myself to invest in anything with operations dependent on the UK economy. Companies with pipelines and IP maybe, exportables attractive to overseas bidders.

That tide will change one day but right now it's on the ebb. However did we let an overgrown schoolboy take charge?

"Chancellor dished out £billions in furlough to so many businesses but couldn't find any funds for intu"
I was under the impression that Intu made full use of the furlough scheme.

Chancellor dished out £billions in furlough to so many businesses but couldn't find any funds for intu, who were forced not to charge rents?!

I think not forcing them to pay during corona was too fair that was what cost them the most!

They are the arrogant idiots who refuse to negotiate rents with beleaguered high street shops and now they will reap the consequences, unfortunately you shareholders will suffer for their arrogance...

Totally agree with you that a false market was created. The share should have been suspended at the end of the previous day trading & not allowed to crash losing alot if investors more money that they would have. I wonder how many inside trades were conducted during the week. These should be investigated & shareholders should actually launch a class action suit against the company.

“Arrogance “...is the right wording but also applies to us punters ,we didn’t want to accept the facts glaring at us but gambled on a mirage of quick and multi baggers....lesson learnt and feel very lucky to escape with a relatively small loss but others endured sadly much much bigger loss .
So the lesson is don’t always dream of buy very low and sell high but rather buy high and sell higher!..Fundamentals,value and sentiment ,with bod be the top brass ....
Market current share valuation of any company SP is almost always right ..But what the real share value is what you believe to be right is after dyor..is your decision and responsibility.
Never been in such situation before but arrogance and overconfidence of recent portfolios gains got the better of me to take far more risk but Intu setback was a good lesson to me and back to be more cautious and grounded..
I hope all who lost here have a good return on their other investments..

But I have got to say false market was created as shares should have got suspended , they tried to give an impression that a last mintue deal is possible while administrators were appointed last week and were on standby, these talks were going on for months and failed when due to market conditions company failed to raise money in March.At that point company ran out of options, it was tough to find a buyer in this environment and even tougher to get fair price.A lot of people were suckered in last week and yesterday, some media outlets were reporting that talks had failed but trading was not halted.

Central gold rand, I remember that one if I am not wrong then they had water issues with gold mining and due to that their production cost shot up and was not economical to mine gold at that point.They had everyone for a ride when they announced that they had a mou with Hong Kong investor to buy company and share price went on to gain 400%.Needless to say that mou got extended couple of times , they did a placing on back of that RNS and we did not hear anything.

It’s difficult to cut lose a loss on a share an take what’s left and I know from bitter experience.
50k on urals energy
20 k on Hamilton mining
15k on central rand gold Anyone remember that one !
Anyway I left the market for a while until I couldn’t resist the pathetic values of some stocks during March so went into Air partner and Xaar big time at the lows now bought the bmw bike I always wanted and paid of my debts, intu was always only. a 2k gamble on survival and bailed out of that one as well at a loss as it was a distressed company all along.
Anyway I hope we chat again on some other sites as this was a very interesting ride.
I am in ARC from the ortac days and now Brng and rps GLA

The post you put up yesterday about United Carpets coming back from administration, it did because management bought the company back obviously at a reduced price (with money the management probably borrowed) even though it came back from administration it was then owned by the management team that bought it back so previous shareholders were still wiped out anyway, in that instance the management did not buy the company back then say to shareholders prier to administration here are your shares back.
Hope that makes sense lad......

RRR sorry to be the bearer of bad news but this is not coming back, once assets have been sold down to pay debts and lots of legal fees (and they wont get market value for it) there will be a list of priority for who the generated money will go to and shareholders will be the last on the list, that's even if they make the list, GL on your next trade.

This is what I asked google..

Here is the answer...

The primary difference between the two procedures is that company administration aims to help the company repay debts in order to escape insolvency (if possible), whereas liquidation is the process of selling all assets before dissolving the company completely

The long and the short of all this is shareholders have been sold a kipper ,given false hope . Shareholders have every right to feel aggrieved and angry that they have been dealt a dummy hand
This outcome should never have happeend and could have been avoided if action had been taken last year

Gewillia spelt it out sometime ago how this was going to play out and played out it was . I was less pessimistic but as time went on .the suicidal deal on Derby and the extraordinary fact they hadn't got busy marketing other UK centres this stunk

Only at the beginning of the year did they try and get some extra finance They sleepwalked shareholder equity to oblivion
Roberts has some explaining to do

"Not doubting your words, but how do you know which asset management companies have been assigned to the centre's?"
I believe React Property news are reporting is. Specificallly David Hatcher, Editorial Director. It's wasstill on his Twitter (last time I checked) @hatcherdavid (10k followers)

They were announced by React News mid afternoon yesterday I posted a list of the various parties involved in an earlier post yesterday afternoon
Not only that British Land offered £1.4bn and Dealncey already in a head to head on Trafford Centre

Delancey headed up by Ritblat son ofJohn Ritblat ironically the founder of British Land

This unravelling has been happening behind closed doors for sometime as is the way of all flesh

Not doubting your words, but how do you know which asset management companies have been assigned to the centre's?

Canadian " Joint partners with INTU in the shopping centre "That is Puerto Venecia not Trafford Centre

In theory .there should be something left in the pot for investors after the administrators stop administering !
However this now will be a bucket load of Xmas's for the professionals lawyers,investment bankers,professional property mangers, investment agents ,valuers accountants . They will be effectively trousering £00ms

The party has just started for all those who joined the bus to make a concerted effort to drive this beast into the ground A half hearted attempted to stop it .This ship had set sail sometimeago

Shareholders can certainly feel that they have been royally shafted
Shareholders equity has already changed hands

All the 50% owners are in very strong negotiating positions to pick up the other half for a song . As Gewillia points out he started the bidding at £100 for Derby . Certainly £100m+has gone byebyes in just over a year on that centre alone

By 3pm yesterday each and every centre had been assigned a property manger dependent on where the individual centres was likely to be heading

That indicates to anyone with any skin in the game proof that the conversation taking place of a carve up had already moved on some days , .weeks ago ,that this was always going to be the likely outcome .Saving the company was the longshot no matter what guff was pedalled

What it does show how easy it was to replace INTU with professional shopping managers like MAPP . They had no USP.

The Canadian company who has been flagged up as the convenient scapegoat as the spoiler would have declared their hand sometime ago that they were not for turning . Not only had they lent £250m secured on the Trafford Centre they were joint partners with INTU in the shopping centre

What we don't know as completion of Puerto was delayed eventually took place during lockdown is whether any monies were being held back etc In addition very likely the buyer wanted a sweetener hence the delay. Just guessing but should imagine INTU were desperate to get hold of every peseta to distribute elsewhere and the Canadians were playing hard ball

Maybe also some control over where the monies were heading to be ringfenced and INTU wanted a release to pare down debts
I wonder if the true story will be ever revealed

"Devonplay
I agree with you..."
The Company once said it's debt structure was it's crowning jewel; as you could cut off a limb and rest of the body would survive.....and in reality it's ended up being it's a Achilles' heel. It's more like a centipede who's limbs want to go in different directions. I really don't think there's going to be anything left for shareholders. As I'm in one of the bonds, I'm wondering if there's going to be a recovery for me. I suspect much of that will have to do with how dominant any one holder is in my trance of the program.

Intu is just as complex as Carillion so i think it will unlikely to come out of suspension

To be fair it is possible to come out of administration ...look at JD Sports who just bought their subsiduary Go Outdoors which they had put into Administration, but the complexity here is of a different scale altogether

Devonplay
I agree with you...much more complex...and of course an administration isnt the same as a pre-pack administration....
RiskReepReward - I think you might be hoping they can back peddle and go back to a line that has already been crossed and somehow now resolve that hurdle...but it seems somewhat unlikely to me

I think a few knew it was game over yesterday when there was that spike....I saw a lot of very small buy trades , which the algorithms used to pump up the share price...the retail investors got excited and jumped in , whilst others who engineered the tiny buys used the subsequent spike to sell out

It's always possible but unlikely

Fair point dotlink.

Keep calm & carry on :)

can't blame the loan providers because they need the money to pay back their own loan providers like banks or they the loan providers go admin themselves, blame intu bod for not raising money or selling assets to raise cash last year

Newbie here (ex-furloughed part-time share gambler)

So net assets (allowing for all debt) roughly equals all equity (shares etc) at last year-end report.

I know asset value is low atm, with another year or two needed to get back to this level at last year-end report.

Are loan providers essentially blocking the company from being liquid in order to get assets on the cheap?

If this is the case, imho we need to find out who the loan providers are so we don't invest in any "pies" they have their fingers in.