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Bigun2, “ wonder why”
Because loose lips sink ships
GLA real holders
Yes Looed and I wonder why?
All will be revealed in the coming months I guess.
This is no ordinary company you know... :-)
Theprodigy - I am saying the return to pre-liquidated state is more common in other liquidation scenarios. Not impossible in an involuntary liquidation but not very common. But the company seems to think it's possible.
Also, I don't have any other information to share that hasn't been presented here.
Bigin
I would be carefull at this stage of things of putting too much reliance on the geo political situation. I do acept it does have a place but this is all background stuff it will not influence a court or judicial process. It may be able to influence any recovereay plan if one can be achived but the judicial and the deloits matters have to deal with facts unless there is total agreement of recoverary from all sides-crditors courts as in the views of a judge and legal definintions. it will not in my view be any sort of master stroke
Thanks looed and Monti.
Yes the near 400 million recovery pool is an asset we certainly wouldnt want to lose.
There is a scenario that would save the CR pool and our shares and limit the cabal of sheisters that have tried to bring us down - im hopeful thats whats going on - hope though.
So hope and pray it is.
Thanks again both.
Hi ‘theprodigy’. I can give you my perspective but I also think that Looed views can also be insightful.
So here goes: from what I understand, the Georgian PSA was re-assigned to FRUS and approved by the GG. This was to stop the FIC JOL from getting their mitts on the oil producing asset. FRUS is a Texan, US registered Company but owned by FRC. But now FRC is in liquidation, we have to assume that Deloitte has control over this entity and therefore over the (expired?) PSA. Perhaps this is why SN is trying get FRC out of Administration?
Having said that, we did speculate here last month that perhaps FRUS ownership was outside the FRC group structure and directly under SN control but atlas, I think Looed confirmed that FRUS was still under FRC.
So where do we go from here as shareholders? FRC (where our shares are issued from), is in liquidation and according to Deloitte, there are more liabilities than assets meaning the company’s net worth is negative, so zero value for shareholders (and may be very little for the creditors too). Our only way out seems to be from the company's last statement that they are working on a plan to return FRC to ‘pre-liquidation’ status for ‘all stakeholders’. I have already given my opinion on this scenario yesterday, either partial settlement for creditors or punting everybody’s dues down the road for a few years. If there is no creditor agreement, the company will be wound up by Deloitte.
So the crucial question is why SN is trying to reverse FRC’s current status back to pre-wind up? Would it not be easier to let FRC collapse and then pick up/renegotiate a new PSA? And here I can think of two reasons why he would not do that: 1) the importance of preserving the Nicandros family name/legacy and 2) keeping intact the cost recovery pool of c.$320m. Here I am assuming that any new PSA will start afresh with zero cost recovery pool while ‘renewing’ exiting agreement allows this to rollover. I also believe US political support for SN remains strong while the Russian geopolitical situation plays in favor of FRR.
Finally to conclude: if FRC is reversed to pre-wind up status then our shares are preserved but this is subject to creditor approval of whatever plan SN proposes or 2) FRC is struck off and SN pick up bits and pieces from the Administrator and lumps it in to a new company, in which case we are reliant on SN to allocate us shares in the new company.
The current situation can take one of many turns so let’s wait and see what the next few weeks bring.
Thanks looed.
in a previous post i think you said after the liquidation process had started within 2 weeks SN was trying to take the company back to a pre liquidated state- from your very well explained answer below you would appear to think this not the case- am i correct in that assumption.
Thanks again.
i have a few other thoughts and questions but not something id be wanting to put on the BB. I might see if one of my long time friends will pass on to you.
The last line got cut off, should read - "I think its the strangest investment story any of us have been involved in!"
Theprodigy – I see some people are confused about the type of liquidation that is taking place. FRC-C is subject to involuntary liquidation / compulsory winding up.
As some shareholders have recently received notifications regarding the liquidation then yes, the liquidator has its hands on the Cayman register (though a register can also sit outside Cayman, we don’t yet know if that is the case here). The BoD ceased to have any controlling interest once the Winding Up Order was granted, and FRC-C passed to the JOL’s.
The liquidators appear to have found the cupboard very empty but there are several mouths still expecting to be fed. So, assuming everything else is found to be in order, the JOLS’s will consider any realistic deal that can be made. The liquidator must determine that any deal is fair to as many creditors as possible and it must be acceptable to the Grand Court. Such deals need meticulous planning. This system also means the liquidator can earn a nice commission which they won’t get from an empty cupboard.
We saw a broadly similar process play out (and fail) in the FIC case where FTI considered various options from potential parties before making their final recommendations.
Yes, we are reliant on SN, but we are also reliant on the creditors / liquidators / courts reaching an agreement. Typically, shareholders are wiped out in these types of deals but “all stakeholders” does mean shareholders and other interested parties.
The assignment from FRC to FRUS was contingent on FRUS fulfilling certain conditions including paying sums of money. We don’t know if that has / has not yet taken place.
As to our shares, the talk of a “return to the status quo” would indicate they plan to remain a Cayman entity = FRC-C. On the face of if that seems almost impossible given the company did not challenge the WUP from Mourant and the liquidation seems to be proceeding as a typical Cayman liquidation. I don’t know any case where a company came back from dissolution, but the liquidation process is still ongoing and so not dissolved yet. So perhaps it’s possible, but I cannot find an example.
In Cayman liquidations, the law does allow for behind-closed-doors discussions between parties either before or during a liquidation. This typically occurs during so-called provisional liquidations (where it can sometimes suit company and creditors to liquidate and restructure) but I think harder to find during involuntary liquidations (which is the type of liquidation FRC-C is undergoing). Not impossible, but not common.
If the parties are cooperating via Deloitte, then the 1st creditor meeting in March could be significant. Sometimes these first meetings are procedural (appoint a committee etc.) but if matters are being discussed – and hopefully resolved – ahead of time then perhaps some important decisions can be made at the meeting.
You said “Strangest investment and story I’ve ever been involved in
Montiburns Looed
so my thinking on current situation is as per the liquidation notice our shares were one hundred percent in the company in liquidation and as such Sn has no current control or legal power over our shares or in FRC C
The notice from the company via looed that we are on the bus is confirmation that we are all, sn included, owners of shares in a company being liquidated.
The asset is not there as per GG acceptance of the shift of ownership to FRUS. Is the comment intimating that we are on the bus of the company that has the asset or just as above that we are on the bus of FRC C.
Are we therefore reliant on SN and the we are all frr family on the bus together menaing that our shares will be honoured with equivelant holding in FRUS. Is this at SN discretion.
I still hope that we will benefit from this - can either of you verfiy my thoughts as correct or am i way off the mark.
It is increasing difficult to see a positive outcome here for my holding after nearly 20 years of support of both SN and FRR.
I wholly appreciate there have been unscrupulous workings to deny us benefit from our support and investment from several players here - the shorters, Hope, Ya etc
its the occasional message of hope thats the killer here though. lost count of the number of times ive put this down to a write off only to get some glimmer of hope at the end of the tunnel that is totally outwith our control with no real concrete knowledge of facts.
Strangest investment and story ive ever been involved in
Any answers on the above appreciated - as is all the work carried out by Looed et al in relaying messages.
Very frustrating
Cheers
I am one of the oldest on this board looking for a computer
that is uncomplicated, safe and reliable. I held on to my previous
computers which might be of interest to the London School of Economics
for research. FCA is made aware. If nothing happens I shall leave my
blocked HL account untouched forever. My family may get a nice surprise
one day when my diverse investment has blossomed, has become worthless or
disappeared? Life is a lottery. Que sera, sera, what will be, will be.
Monti, loving your layman write up’s , gives the mortals like myself a insight into possible outcomes, for that I thank you👍
Tabs, I will keep saying this to you, keep the faith! could anyone other than ZM be so cruel as to string us along for this amount of time when he surely could have gotten shut of us real holders moons ago? For me….NO, our leader fights for us and has multiple times updated us through Looed & Jimslade. As Monti says , re-read Looed’s posts and just hang in there.
plaster, very, very well put.
All things bright and beautiful, all companies great and small, just like OURS
GLA real holders
Now I am old and wise
I asked my broker "why am I broke?"
He had an answer which is the truth
"Some win and most do lose."
Que sera, sera, whatever will be, will be, etc.
With advice for Jeremy looking for a strong economy.
Make sure equities are not like the Lottery.
And increase IHT .
No, it has not been struck off.
However SN is a businessman at the end of the day, so don't expect any charity.
The only reason I can see that FRC will carry on is because it has to, why?
Here are the usual suspects:-
money, politics, power...
Geo-political issues are at all time high don't you think
So, FRC is properly gone.
Our only chance of any money is if SN gives us shares in FR-Whatever but he is not obliged to do so, it would be effectively an act of charity from his POV. Is that correct?
Just want to make sure I've understood.
Tabs - perhaps worth revisiting the company’s message of 14th February: ‘We are working closely with Deloitte to return the company to the pre-windup status quo for the benefit of all stakeholders, and we are advancing a joint formal plan in this regard.
As this unfolds, more info will become available. We are grateful for the positive and professional, collaborative relationship we’ve established with Deloitte.”
So what is a joint formal plan? ……agreeing on common objectives and aligning on a single goal or set of goals with the creditors? So with that in mind, the company could propose extending all amounts owed to creditors by say 3 yrs but a face value. I am not sure if this is going to fly (given the recent history) but against the next option of getting zero, may be they will accept. However, I still think, offering a certain amount to the $ as a full and final settlement would be the best way to go but that will depend on how much SN is prepared to spend. The other side of the coin is, why would creditors take a hammering to their dues and the shareholders get a way scot free. Well, the answer to that question is that we have already been put through the mincer multiple times; SN could do us a favor for once.
So, the creditor meeting for the 16th March could prove to be pivotal and perhaps this plan would be circulated for discussion and approval couple a weeks before that meeting.
Other thought that comes to mind is that perhaps the renewal of PSA is purposely being delayed to get this meeting out of the way first, otherwise the value of the assets would be recorded much higher.
Tsb1 put yourselfe in his place, if you were trying to set up a deal to save the company and hopefully the shareholders would you be shouting to all and sundry what you were going to do, I certainly would not.
tbh i cant see how we will be part of anything. why would sn have to do anything for shareholders exactly. the company has been liquidated end of. he doesnt owe anything to anyone ecept his lawyers id have thought. theres no need for him to be doing any kind of deals at all with creditors why would he ?
unless this is something i ve never witnessed before then it can only be over and out
why cant sn tell us what is going on, are we to sit tight and wait or can we just move on its totally rediculous
the question load should ask his contact is if he would be so kind is it over for us or are we still part of the company.
no more ****e
I remember some years back getting a phone call for support for the company.As did all shareholders.my shares were in a nominee account
A hole in the ground , potential is sound?
How many holes are sold , filled with Oil or Gold?
On dodgy AIM where dreamers are found and sold
anything that is nothing.
These stories are told to the old on-line and by thugs in the pub. .
Supervision is relaxed.
They take our money and never pay tax
The old being robbed can buy a tent
And live in the cold without gold. .
Finance UK.
Has the company ever confirmed they have a full register of shareholders? They've proven over the years their admin isn't the best...
It cannot be sruck off until all the creditors have been paid, or at least happy with the insolvency.
Drango I had 17k in wres they went to the wall another 33k in this one looks like its gone the same way no more gambling for me happy with 5% interest from now on luckily I can stand the loss but feel sorry for those in this share who will be massively effected by the loss.
It's already been struck off..
Https://www.kirks.co.uk/faqs/company-liquidation/whats-the-difference-between-liquidation-and-dissolving-a-company/
https://www.mourant.com/media---guides/mourant---voluntary-liquidation-and-strike-off---solvent-cayman-islands-companies.pdf
Basically the company becomes a shell after liquidation, but once the liquidation process has been signed off as complete it can be re-liquidated and the company can start trading again. If not then it is likely to be struck off.