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@ FD - it was your comments yesterday about the free market that you made to me to which I referred, not to the person who was poking fun at the loss makers. But I am happy to let bygones be bygones. I agree with you about the the liquidation. Administration or D4E swap was by far the most likely - I said over the weekend I couldn't see HMG letting this go because of the ramifications of failure on wider public services. How wrong was I ? Not saying they did the right thing - just saying that I never believed for one second they would do such a wrong thing. The have painted themselves into a corner now. It never was a simple case of state versus private ownership. They have said they are continuing 'public services', though quite what they are now up for interpretation. They have used contingency measures to pass public funded profitable projects to other private firms whilst taking on aspects 'in house' that will cost the taxpayer shed-loads. No free market competition evident here - in fact very much the opposite.
You can not blame the Tories for how Carillion messed up. The fundamental day to day operation changed, valuing the company based on contracts it wins and it needs more to grow, it was bound to collapse... if not now, when the next financial crisis or recession hits. The core of the business was structures wrongly (in my opinion). Additionally, you can not blame the Government for proving contracts what you need to remember is Carillion was doing arguably well until it's profit warning a year ago... the Government wouldve still had faith in this since the long relationship thwy have held. These types of company are talking about Billions in revenues.. if one or two contracts don't pay the company can fall short, and it will be sharply. Ultimately, it's a wake up call for all big business to make sure that they don't take on too much work, or too many contracts. It is not the first, and it won't be the last. It was clear the Government would cover the Pension deficit... but that's one of the main issues with having a private sector pension, we've seen it before and we will see it again.
Meets the eye and i doubt we will ever find out the real level of deception that has gone on here, i know people took risks myself included but i feel the way they staged the news was sneaky, when you sit back and reflect on it the shares should have been suspended a long while ago but then again thats the name of the game! Pay your money take your chance !!
snige we can dissect and analyse elements of the Company's Business until the cows come home. IMO Carillion had grown through acquisitions for years and the way each Take-over was reportedly amalgamated into the Group, concealed a build-up of debt which would eventually strangle the Company. Many should review the persistent attempts to take over Balfour, who finally resisted Carillion's overtures when it became part of a deal that BB would have to abort a deal to sell N.American interests for circa �500million. Those funds enabled BB to rejuvenate...look where there are now. IMO there were one or two Executives who had delusions of Grandeur believing Carillion could be the Biggest Construction Group around, unfortuneately it was being done in a dishonest way, Shareholders were not being told the truth, even since July they have been treated like mushrooms. It is and has been a very hard lesson for some to learn.
Probably run more efficiently
Imagine what will happen to us if we let the Tories fully privatise the NHS!!!!!!!
Nucky........suggest there is a lot to come out. It is now being stated apart from the Holding Company's debts, individual Comapny's within the group have borrowing arrangements which could make the entire Group's Debt well over �2billion. Don't forget Banks had agreed Lifeboat Loans of �130million only weeks ago, and now that was not enough. One can only imagine the Financial Black Hole facing Carillion is so big as too be completely unmanagible..
Hi all, just logged on to my Lloyds account, saying share is 135p???? What's that all about?
Did anything follow a logical route. I did say at the time there are 100's of contracts. It was reported on Radio 4 this morning about the Eaga purchase just before the Green Deal for �300m plus.Camerons idea at the time but ended in failure,as he did.Strange that Oxford CC decided to pull the plug this summer which covers Camerons constituency. At some point i think Carillion fell out of favour and it has nothing to do with whether it be private or public.
Isolatedbod, what on earth are you talking about? Suggest you review the posters yesterday and as many could see one rampant Member was highly animated and insulting those who had lost money. He was so exuberant and offensive, it was embarrassing to read his posts. Some of those posts were so offensive Admin removed. Don't make stories which are complete fiction. I'll thank you to revoke your statement.
No hang on, isn't it true Carillion have list their money from foreign contracts mostly? French & middle eastern? Nobody asked for a bail out, they did ask for guarantees on payment due so they could give it one last effort t9 turnntje company around but we're told no. Meanwhile ex government ministers and m8nistees spouses are making hundreds of millions hedging on the company going down.
Just seen Wolverhampton Labour MP John Reynolds on BBC saying how sad it is etc etc. I wrote to all 3 ( yes, three) Wolverhampton Labour MPs and they did SFA.
snige those comments were in respect of JV Contracts which as we are seeing the remaining Partners are required to take over Carillion's share. So on those Public contracts there will be a level of continuity. It is the sole Contracts which will cause problems. One wonders why the BOD opted for Compulsory Liquidation when to all it appeared an Administrator in the form of EY would be appointed. An Administrator, although PI's would be little or no better-off, at least there would be a more orderly transfer of Business Operations. I am yet to see reasons for the Liquidation route when it was openly touted an Administrator was in the wings....strange don't you think?
You must be hungover FD after your rantings and accusations yesterday - not the sign of a sober person. I reckon you should put a vodka in your skinny latte mate - it'll keep your vitriol and snarling up to a high standard.
FD,remember back in autumn when you said it would be easy just to transfer these contracts over and it all carrys on as normal.Now the're telling us the taxpayer might have to pay �500m. Do you still think its a breeze for the suppliers etc?
Oh dear! Modern society I�m afraid! Not many can accept responsibility for their irresponsible actions. Unfortunately society rewards criminals these days so I can�t see much monies being raised for someone that lost money on shares, however in today�s world, Who knows!
Its a political gamble. Whether or not contracting out and DLO should have been there is the first place is a moot point. The fact is that the 'stress' tests and contingencies were unlikely to be enough and the result is a short term and possibly longer disruption to public services. Bail-outs would have left the govt. open to the charge of nationalising losses but privatising profits. Which, funnily enough is what has happened. Just the profits have been shifted to CLLN competitors like Kier and the losses will be paid by muggins taxpayer. Bail out would have more akin to the East Coast Mainline - which was made profitable through govt. intervention ! It would have been nothing like the Soviet Union - pure fantasy. You may as well have said it would have been like the planet of the Daleks.
Think it's true that Phillip Green WAS an adviser to David Cameron and was subsequently axed by Theresa May in 2016
exactly
Isolatedbod Pilgrim you need to get a life and focus on where your next meal will come from, maybe you have a Crowdfunding site. Grow up or take a few more Valium, which may widen your horizons.
We must ignore 8 HMG contract awards and follow Sky news!
HMG signed eight contracts since July profit warning! Issuing a profit warning does not mean a company folds especially one that's backed to the hilt by our own government. Jeremy Corbyn, congratulations on becoming the new Prime Minister yesterday.
Yeap your right Illbet,we should all go up and listen to Sky news.You don't by chance work for them?
The main purpose of the stock market is to make fools of as many men as possible. Bernard Baruch Still cant believe the post yesterday of the gambler setting up a "just giving" page to recoup his (or her) losses...what a moron and makes a mockery of the just giving site...
All the best Taz!