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Part 6 of 6
Let’s round off this series of ‘Facts vs. Fiction’ posts with some double standards and hypocrisy…
@c2645sg is clearly entitled to hold this opinion:
c2645sg – 26/11/21 - Quote: “My shareholding is none of your business AML007”
However, why then is anyone else’s shareholding any of @c2645sg’s business?
E.g. c2645sg – 08/04/24 - Quote: “Noah, whats your average here?”
As I’ve lost count of the number of times that @c2645sg has asked me about my shareholding.
These examples, 3 questions in 9 days, suggests an unhealthy interest, bordering on obsession.
c2645sg – 30/01/24 – “What’s your average now 007?”
c2645sg – 31/01/24 – “Whats your average here 007?”
c2645sg – 07/02/24 – “What's your AML pot average Paul?”
Although, the fact these questions usually come after I’ve highlighted fictional posts may be a clue.
- - - - - - - - - -
MarkPatrick – 26/02/24 - Quote: “C26: Wrong. We are not ALL waiting to hear AML007’s average. I for one am waiting to hear if YOU are invested here? Been waiting a long time. Please do tell?”
So, despite @c2645sg keen interest in other people’s AML holdings, @c2645sg will not confirm if they actually own any AML shares themselves, which does seem a rather hypocritical position.
Similarly, @c2645sg expects others to post the details of their AML share sales on here too.
c2645sg – 17/04/24 - Quote: “Let us know when you sell, please?!”
But @c2645sg never posted on here when they sold their ‘considerable amount’ of AML shares.
c2645sg – 27/10/20 – Quote: “More proof that long term thinking is better than short term. Forget wave theories. Buy a company that has this kind of potential and let it run. I won’t be selling ANY of the considerable amount I have for at least 3 years or anything under £1.50.”
For context, an AML SP target of £1.50 = £30 post the 20:1 consolidation in Dec.20.
After all, @c2645sg (falsely) claims to have called the 2021 SP peak, so it stands to reason that they would have posted something along the lines of ‘this is as good as it will get, so I’m selling now’.
@c2645sg – Tell you what, if you show me your “I sold” posts, then I’ll show you mine. ;-)
- - - - - - - - - -
@EveryoneElse – Apologies for the sheer length of these posts, but please see ‘Brandolini’s Law’.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandolini%27s_law
Cheers, Paul. :)
Part 5 of 6
These were factual statements:
AML_007 – 25/03/23 - Quote: “I stopped posting details on here.”
AML_007 – 21/01/24 - Quote: “I have already made money from my AML shareholding.
Yes, I bought shares at high prices, but I also bought shares at low prices, that’s what an average is!
My experience was similar to that of Michael de Picciotto / St.James Invest SA.”
Although, in reality, I had a few (very) small advantages over de Picciotto / St.James:
- Over 90% of my original AML holding was bought in 2022 vs. 84% of de Picciotto’s.
- I also bought over 60% of my total AML holding via a SIPP pension scheme.
- Therefore, the UK Government directly paid for some of my AML shares, at zero cost to me.
- The UK Govt. also gave me cash back, via a tax refund, reducing my AML share costs still further.
- - - - - - - - - -
The following are just a small selection of fictional statements about my AML average:
c2645sg – 21/01/24 - Quote: “your average above £15”
c2645sg – 19/02/24 - Quote: “Paul/AML007, hurry up with that AML average, otherwise you might not be able to claim(lie) you are in profit (haha) much longer.... ;)”
c2645sg – 16/04/24 - Quote: “Zero chance of agreeing with me if you can't even agree with yourself.
Bet you wish you had sold at £15 and bought at £1.50 now, huh? 90% destruction in wealth.”
c2645sg – 17/04/24 - Quote: “Then they try to tell you they are up. They can't even be honest with themselves never mind anyone else.”
c2645sg – 26/04/24 - Quote: “I guess that's not an issue to you because when you have lost so much money, it gets to the point where it really doesn't matter any more?”
- - - - - - - - - -
c2645sg - 07/03/24 – Quote – “You keep trying to weave a false narrative, it won't work.”
Based on the facts vs. friction highlighted above, who is the one trying to weave a false narrative?
@c2645sg regularly quotes my 2020/21 buys, but always refuses to answer my simple question:
“…please share with the group how many shares I bought in 2022 & how much I paid for them.”
@2645sg also never mentions de Picciotto / St.James buying 5.8 million shares in 2022 @ £1.06 avg.
The simple mathematics of AML shareholding averages shows that 2022 was the year that counts.
End of Part 5…
Part 4 of 6
Back to the fact checking…
c2645sg – 09/03/23 - Quote:
“Directors were buying close to £20 and it fell to 90p. They are heavily in loss, just like most on here.”
@c2645sg - There is a big difference between being down on paper & actually incurring a loss.
de Picciotto / St.James were ‘down’ £13.6m when the SP was 90p, but they did not make a loss.
Which would have happened, if they sold based on your (false) claim the company was going bust.
Instead, they didn’t lose £13.6m by selling & made £1m+ when they sold some of their AML shares.
So, yes, de Picciotto / St.James are ‘down’ today, but they will not lose/make money until they sell.
- - - - - - - - - -
This was actually the full quote used in Part 2 above:
c2645sg – 23/12/22 - Quote: “Pociotto was buying millions of shares at £18/19. If he was that bright and knew the company so well, why was he buying near the top?”
Which begs this paraphrased question for @c2645sg based on the second part of their quote…
‘If you was that bright & knew the company so well, why were you buying near the top?’ ;-)
c2645sg – 11/06/21 – Quotes:
09:17 – “Even I topped up over £22, but quickly sold again when I realised what was going on.”
11:11 - “Doyezee, I saved myself 13% by selling.”
13:12 - “Nice, hit my limit order of 1910. Keeping some in reserve in case it goes lower.”
c2645sg – 19/07/21 - Quote – “I am down a fair chunk today”
- - - - - - - - - -
So, @c2645sg saved money by selling at £22 & re-buying at £19 in Jun.21.
But were then ‘down’ in Jul.21, because the SP had dropped still further by then.
As per above, being down is not the same as making a loss, as they hadn’t sold.
However, it makes a complete mockery of their repeated (false) claims to have call the AML SP top.
Covered in more detail here:
https://www.lse.co.uk/ShareChat.asp?ShareTicker=AML&share=Aston-Martin-Lagonda&page=2&thread=16EB0448-6072-4769-97F8-D38F96A7BA54
End of Part 4…
Part 3 of 6
Back to Michael de Picciotto / St.James Invest SA and ‘Part 1’ ended with…
31/12/22 – Grand Total = 6,993,787 shares - Total Cost £20,133,986 - Avg. £2.88
25/05/23 - de Picciotto / St.James / Yew Tree Consortium sold some AML shares to Geely.
https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/AML/substantial-investment-in-aston-martin-by-geely-q94k6aqturtuixu.html
Clearly, this was a strategic decision and not the final ‘cashing out’ of their AML investment.
Still, they did sell 2,333,127 shares, at £3.35 per share = £7,815,975.
Compared to the £6,716,697 cost of those 2.3m shares (based on the average cost of £2.88).
Which gives a £1,099,279 gross profit / 16% return, excluding fees, taxes, etc.
Obviously, a £3.35 selling price is lower than the cost of each share bought in 2020 & 2021.
But the sheer number, and significantly lower prices, of their 2022 buys more than covers this.
That £1m profit compares to a potential £5m loss from selling those 2.3m shares @ 90p in Oct.22.
Meaning de Picciotto/St.James were £6m better off after ignoring @c2645sg’s bankruptcy warning!
- - - - - - - - - -
With £1,099,279 gross profit already banked, their AML balance became…
01/06/23 – Grand Total = 4,660,660 shares, Cost £13,417,290, Avg. per share = £2.88
Aug.23 - de Picciotto / St.James were part of the cash raise.
03/08/23 - 900,000 shares @ £3.71 = £3,339,000 cost
Sep.23 – Part of Stroll/Yew Tree building up their controlling percentage.
28/09/23 – 725,000 shares @ £2.57 = £1,863,250 cost
31/12/23 – Grand Total = 6,285,660 shares, Cost £18,619,540, Avg. per share = £2.96
- - - - - - - - - -
Sources:
https://www.lse.co.uk/DirectorsDeals.html?shareprice=AML&share=Aston-Martin-Lagonda
https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/AML/
https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/a/aston-martin-lagonda-ord-10p/director-deals
AML Annual Accounts – 2021 to 2023
End of Part 3…
Part 2 of 6
Before continuing with Michael de Picciotto / St.James Invest SA, let the fact checking begin…
c2645sg – 23/12/22 - Quote: “Picciotto was buying millions of shares at £18/19.”
#Facts - Picciotto didn’t buy a single share at £19 & just 130,715 shares in the £18 range.
Those £18 shares from 2021, made up less than 2% of their 31/12/22 total holding of 6.99m shares.
Funny how @c2645sg never mentions the 5.8 million shares bought in 2022, with a £1.06 avg.
Which were all a matter of public record when @c2645sg posted their fiction on 23/12/22.
- - - - - - - - - -
c2645sg – 15/04/24 - Quote:
“Half the board were buying shares over £15, and they were all completely wrong.”
Based the working in Part 1, which had the biggest influence on de Picciotto‘s overall AML average:
- Was it the 2% of 6.99m shares bought for around £18 in 2021?
- Or was it the 83% of 6.99m shares bought for an average of £1.06 in 2022?
Which is the whole point of talking about an average, that includes high & low prices paid.
- - - - - - - - - -
c2645sg – 13/10/22 – Quote: “Priced for its 8th bankruptcy now.”
At the time @c2645sg claimed AML was about to go bust, de Picciotto / St.James had 6.3m shares.
Conventional wisdom is that, when faced with bankruptcy, you should sell your shares for ‘something/anything’, rather than keeping holding & risk getting nothing when the company folds.
If they had sold those 6.3m shares in Oct.22, around the 90p mark, they would have lost £13m!
(Ignoring the fact that selling 6.3m shares would have lowered the SP & increased the loss.)
Instead, they bought more shares in Nov.22 and lowered their average from £3.06 to £2.88.
End of Part 2…
Part 1 of 6
@advocate1973 – Apologies, later than promised, but I needed the 2023 accounts to complete this.
- - - - - - - - - -
Here is a worked example of an average AML share price calculation, using real share dealings.
Michael de Picciotto / St.James Invest SA
29/06/20 - 4,000,000 shares @ £50p per share = £2,000,000 cost
09/12/20 - 1,240,784 shares @ £50p = £620,392 cost
2020 Buys = 5,240,784 shares, Cost £2,620,392, Avg. per share = £0.50
14/12/20 - 20:1 Share Consolidation
31/12/20 - Total = 262,039 shares, Cost £2,620,392, Avg. per share = £10.00
- - - - - - - - - -
02/03/21 - 50,000 shares @ £18.98 = £949,110 cost
07/05/21 - 50,000 shares @ £18.48 = £924,175 cost
28/06/21 - 30,715 shares @ £18.71 = £574,678 cost
05/11/21 - 100,000 shares @ £17.44 = £1,744,000 cost
26/11/21 - 25,000 shares @ £14.60 = £365,000 cost
02/12/21 - 25,000 shares @ £13.99 = £349,750 cost
15/12/21 - 79,679 shares @ £12.00 = £956,148 cost
16/12/21 - 20,321 shares @ £12.32 = £250,355 cost
2021 Buys = 380,715 shares, Cost £6,113,215, Avg. per share = £16.06
Sub-Total 2020 + 2021 Buys = 642,754 shares - Cost £8,733,607 - Avg. £13.59
The above covers share purchases, but de Picciotto / St.James also had AML warrants:
https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/AML/directorpdmr-shareholding-replacement-0mnk1fkv814s1tf.html
AML’s 2021 Accounts list the de Picciotto / St.James holding as 1,150,000 shares on 31/12/21.
Therefore, an extra 507,246 shares were added by way of exercising these warrants.
(As part of the total of 1,525,926 warrants exercised in 2021, in three batches.)
Share Cost = $0.38 per warrant (paid in Dec.20), plus £10 per share option price = £10.28.
2021 Warrants – 507,246 shares @ £10.28 = £5,214,489 cost
31/12/21 - Grand Total = 1,150,000 shares - Total Cost £13,948,096 - Avg. £12.13
- - - - - - - - - -
28/09/22 - RI - 4,800,000 shares @ £1.03 = £4,944,000 cost
28/09/22 - RI Rump - 378,787 shares @ £1.32 = £499,999 cost
Sep.22 Buys = 5,178,787 shares, Cost £5,443,99, Avg. per share = £1.05
30/09/22 – Grand Total = 6,328,787 shares - Total Cost £19,392,095 - Avg. £3.06
03/11/22 - 114,000 shares @ £0.90 = £102,822 cost
03/11/22 - 118,797 shares @ £0.96 = £114,225 cost
04/11/22 - 237,500 shares @ £1.11 = £264,075 cost
07/11/22 - 95,743 shares @ £1.29 = £123,655 cost
08/11/22 - 95,000 shares @ £1.38 = £131,525 cost
09/11/22 - 3,960 shares @ £1.41 = £5,590 cost
Nov.22 Buys = 665,000 shares, Cost £741,891, Avg. per share = £1.12
Total 2022 Buys = 5,843,787 shares, Cost £6,185,890, Avg. per share = £1.06
31/12/22 – Grand Total = 6,993,787 shares - Total Cost £20,133,986 - Avg. £2.88
End of Part 1…
The DB12 launch has been a disaster.
New Vantage means old one can't have sold well.
DBX sales lower across the board.
Why are you expecting good results?
Noah
I've been topping up while it's cheap this stock is oversold should see a good set of figures out next week
GL
Thanks Noah i hadn't spotted the Bloomberg article, that certainly explains things and also shows how little this is going to need positive news wise to start moving up.
£1.61.... price to have happy party....haha! Haha!
If you wondered what happened with today spiked SP up to 161 today for few minutes!! Turn out that AM F1 selling up to 25% (nothing do with this AML company) but it shown still influencing between both for SP …… it strangely…. It must be give C26 a frightening 👍for few min!
Where from - see below
Bloomberg News
Aston Martin Lagonda’ stock spiked as much as 7.3% after Bloomberg News reported Stroll’s interest in selling down his F1 stake further, before it pared those gains.
C26,
You missed the point from 4 to 1.50 - I sold 3.71 and back in recently … tut…
Tim,
you only lose money if you sell at a loss darling. That's the way it works. The idea being that you should sell when you can make a profit when the share price is more than you bought the share for. It's quite simple really. The big sales will be BIG investors balancing their books. Relatively little investors such as myself probably mostly are sitting tight watching the news and taking the piff out of you and the gImp.
Happy Friday
There have been big sells most afternoons for months, hence the share price falling from £4 to £1.50.
I guess that's not an issue to you because when you have lost so much money, it gets to the point where it really doesn't matter any more?
10% of not very much is, well, not very much.
Paul....hilarious yet again....
He obviously forget what he writes!
C2645sg – 25/04/24 - Quote:
“260k's of shares sold in 3 big transactions yesterday, who is selling so many?
Almost 50k shares sold today in 2 tranches, too.”
- - - - - - - - - -
@c2645sg – Why do you continue to make mountains out of mole hills?
260k sold = 0.032% of 823m+ AML shares in circulation & 50k = 0.006% of 823m.
Hardly AML ‘big’ by any stretch of the definition.
Happy Friday everyone, cheers, Paul. :)
Yep. I did say this.
It disappointed but I can see there manipulate (SP) selling … I have no excuse.
I did make this post on 13 March 2024, I did say ….. i am considering and bit more time ..
I did bought back (later on) for (small free shares from your profits so it free for me). The value SP today or at the time (13/03/2024 was 168 - not even 10% loss…. There is some one mop up daily).
Yes there still chance CR I have said many time….. I am very happy with my first batch shares.
The original post from myself - loss no more than 10% and manipulating SP.
Of course no excuse, for me paperloss.
Hand up and no one should following me -DYOR.
THAO - you make me chuckling lol and do keep the posts - just like C26 (you just give 100% giveaway you and THAO linking - 👍👍👍
NoahsArk
Posted in: AML
Posts: 2,038
Price: 168.40
No Opinion
RE: RNS !!!!!!!13 Mar 2024 19:05
Not too sure….
It good time to buy (if you have some fund - do it). It looks good and much better for future… the SP could be spike up a decent one… I am considering and bit more time (I am very confident the SP is now upwards from today RNS) for many months or into 2025…..
Remember never to greed, just your own strategy like myself…. But it lovely news for this evening.
WRONG! Haha! HAHA!
C26,
Paper loss yup.
Wait and see, I made huge profit last time by you and little prixk brother.
You make me laugh with your new attempt with SSOreport….. tut tut.
Log off
Same old Noah, can't argue any of the points in the article, all you can do is try and discredit it. It doesn't work!
How much have you lost on your recent buy here Noah?
Aston Martin wholesaled 6,620 cars in 2023 but retailed only 5,918.
So much for demand led business.
Lying to shareholders is par for the course for Larry.
Privacy policy 😁
Karenable!
Interesting give away small information…. Going check company house for start.
C26 19.56pm.
Lol, we not born yesterday!!! SSoreport - COPYRIGHT FOR Karenable !!! You can’t fool us this time!.
Where to find…. Click the menu icon (look bottom) created by 27works and copyright ©️ for Karenable!!!!!
Shooo.