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I don’t suppose anybody has a copy of the podcast type interview that Stephen Moon did back in around 2010/11, where he talked about the profit sharing agreement with DSM?
As I recall the agreement is weighted towards DSM up to a particular volume (confidential), as they need to recover costs and make it with worth while their investment. Then as volumes rise, Provexis get a larger part of the share on a sliding scale. Also, as volumes rise the margin on FF goes from OK to very high. That is because the base manufacturing costs are high, but don’t rise much, and the materials (tomato seeds) are a by-product of other products.
So as I see it, DSM currently takes the lions share with low margin at the moment, but we expect that to switch around quite quickly as volumes rise.
Do others recall that?
It keeps me hopeful that PXS will see a large income from the By-Health orders and other brands that are part of large global businesses.
Also, thinking about the PE ratio. If you look at the health/drug/medical sector, the ratios can be crazy high, 40 to 80 being pretty normal. So PXS share price could absolutely rocket on big FF orders. We could quite easily see £5m profit and £175m market cap.
That’s my thought of the day! But as Gix likes to say, BWTFDIK
Dr_H,
Check under the news tab but I think the webinars will all be long gone.
https://web.archive.org/web/20120519211504/http://www.provexis.com/
Can’t locate it. I think it’s gone now.
If I recall correctly, a later RNS stated that the 'sliding scale' had been re-negotiated between Provexis and DSM and that PXS would now get a bigger chunk of the profits than previously agreed.
Sorry, by bigger I mean the sliding scale was moved forward so that the acceleration of profit was earlier than envisaged. Gixer will know for sure :-)
lol,
This was due to an earlier than anticipated reduction in the fixed level of overhead from sales that DSM gets before any profits are shared.
https://otp.investis.com/clients/uk/provexis_plc/rns/regulatory-story.aspx?cid=1569&newsid=797986
So we are in a position to make good profit from future orders. I’m hoping and expecting that PXS will be in a much better place in 2 to 3 years.
We won't be around then. We will be swallowed up by .......
The alliances agreement was signed in 2010 ,i was under the impression it was a ten year deal ! Anyone know how long the agreement actually is ?
"The Company announced on 1 June 2010 that it had entered into a long-term alliance with DSM to develop Fruitflow® in all major global markets, through an effective commercialisation of current formats and pioneering new and significant applications (the "Alliance"). Strategy, co-ordination, organisation and implementation for the Alliance is governed by an Alliance Board comprising two members from each partner company. The agreement extends initially until 2022 at which time the partners will review the arrangement. DSM will put substantial efforts into the Alliance and will be responsible for: manufacturing; marketing; and selling Fruitflow® via its substantial sales force. Provexis will be responsible for contributing scientific expertise necessary for the successful commercialisation of the product."
https://www.investegate.co.uk/provexis-plc--pxs-/rns/interim-results/201012160700080528Y/
Probably around June if it was for 12 years.
https://www.investegate.co.uk/provexis-plc--pxs-/rns/alliance-agreement-with-dsm-n/201006010700177846M/
Thanks Gixer , looks like things are going to change over the next 12-15 months , my guess is a DSM t/o , I think DSM increased there holding in the recent placing , I might be wrong on that .
No i’m Wrong on the DSM holding they still hold 143769000 share s in Pxs
DSM have shown the same number of shares for years so I am not convinced they have increased. This is from 2016.
https://web.archive.org/web/20160326214820/http://provexis.org/shareholder-information/major-shareholders/
With the fact that "potential sales volumes remain at a significant multiple of existing Fruitflow sales" from By-Health alone, then I would assume this will put us in a good position for any renegotiations with DSM.
To be fair to DSM they do seem to pay a decent multiple of profit for the companies they have bought out , let’s hope the“substantial multiple of existing Fruitflow sales “ Materialises this year .
IMO it won't be DSM who buy us out
Is it significant multiples from By-Health alone?
According to the half year report yes.
"Planned launch by By-Health, a circa £4bn listed Chinese dietary supplement business, of a number of Fruitflow based products in the Chinese market is progressing well. Potential sales volumes remain at a significant multiple of existing Fruitflow sales."
Thanks for the reminder Gixer , Byhealth will take over the DSM contract in 2022 IMO.
I hope your wrong everhopeful. PXS could make us a fortune in future if it is not bought out.
PXS is not worth a fortune is it , it is loss making . To make it profitable someone will have to throw lots of money at an advertising campaign . There are other products available to do that with and that is our problem. These Co's are not interested in peoples health , they say they are but it's profit they want .
But they already. Why bother at all trying to achieve blue hat? Makes no sense. Hence why this is interesting because by health could quite comfortable throw millions at it which would make for a very successful advertising campaign. The product is sound always has been. Cash has been lacking. Seeing the recent uplift in both our patent companies valuations, the level of investment required now would be like pennies to both of them. Perhaps blue hat will be the catalyst.
We can only hope poochu , maybe Byhealths business model is built on a reputation of quality and products that work , ill people try anything with little encouragement hence all the snake oil salesmen .
This is China though, they don't need the snake oil merchants. If it proves to work (blue cap, let's say), then people could be "encouraged" to take it by the state. Alf says 20p is fantasy league stuff, if this gets going in China the sky's the limit! The only constraint would be on the supply side. We've seen a gradual rise towards 1p, once that's gone I think the next leg up could happen much more quickly.
The Chinese believe that Bird nest soup and Shark fins are very good for you , maybe if you are starving . Like I keep saying advertising will sell anything . If PXS PIs had got together and put an advert in one of the health mags 10 years ago then we'd have got a lot further than IF has taken us , in fact he has got no where we are where we are due to DSM and Moon sorted that out.
Neverhopeful,
And that was a contract for DSM to do the selling part, which expires next year. If there has been slow sales progress, DSM are responsible.
An advert 10 years ago for what? A sugar loaded juice drink that most found unpalatable?
You misrepresent Chinese progress, the majority of the middle class seek modern, western sourced, health solutions.