The next focusIR Investor Webinar takes places on 14th May with guest speakers from Blue Whale Growth Fund, Taseko Mines, Kavango Resources and CQS Natural Resources fund. Please register here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
I can't find any reason to explain why Flutter (-5.2%) is underperforming Entain (-2.5%) today.
Does any body know?
Thanks a lot.
That was lucky closed £158.85... TYJ
A lot of messing about if you do not go for the bed & ISA , maybe only worth it if larger money size .
The 1% stamp duty makes others better for trade messing .
Company was formed in 2016 from the merger of Paddy Power and Betfair Group.
Must of been around £10 at merger time .
Bought them all back in the ISA for £155.37 8.30am did not take into acc Irish so 1% stamp duty .
The sale 156.86 to the repurchase 155.37 around 1% cheaper , sheer luck as got day low by 15680 by 10.30am .
In hindsight better to do this last year when it was under the £10 .
Might buy them in ( D )
Messing with ISA as this on year high .
looking for £156.86 but it dropped decided to place limit for 15700 lifted around 4pm .
5 year high 19/3/21 £169.15.
low after 15/7/22 £78.72 ( less then half of today's sale )
Not sure what I paid for them at present , transferred from closed down broker .
Before merger maybe .
Flutter today has not only blown a hole in the £150 per share barrier, but some lead-footed institution came in at precisely 2.30 pm and bought over 40,000 shares in one trade at £168.32, costing them over £6.5 million and almost setting a new all-time-high. I'm suspicious that the timing was precisely the moment that New York opened for the day.
Then the uncrossing trade at 16.35 saw almost 92,000 shares change hands at £152.10p, followed, two minutes later, by 5 simultaneous trades of c. 10,000 shares each at between £149.82 and 151.72 for a cost of c. £7.5 million.
All this can scarcely be because of the 3 pm announcement of a trading update on 3rd May, surely? Though maybe the market is finally waking up to how undervalued FLTR has been from Nov. '21 until Feb. this year. Happy Days!
This is surreal...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-mp-scott-benton-lobbying-investigation-ckhzrfqg0
Benton, 35, is chairman of the all-party parliamentary group for betting and gaming...
"Later in the meeting, the conversation moved on to whether he could obtain a copy of the gambling white paper in advance of publication and leak it to the company."
•Guaranteed he could leak a copy of a forthcoming white paper on gambling reforms to the company at least 48 hours before it went public, potentially allowing them to profit from market-sensitive information.
Some years ago, Ticino, they suspended paying dividends because they considered their debt level to be too high, compared to their ebitda. If you look back through their half-yearly results, possibly around 2019 or 2020, you'll see they stated a debt/ebitda multiple target at which, once reached, they'd resume dividends. I can't remember what it was - age, don't you know!
New investor - but wondering why flutter diesnt oay dividends ?
uncommon results should benefit us too!
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-11873359/HSBC-hands-Flutter-boost-Gold-Cup-day.html?ico=mol_desktop_money-newtab&molReferrerUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailymail.co.uk%2Fmoney%2Findex.html&_ga=2.210193685.1001792082.1679172563-829466088.1679172563&_gl=1*181uk3e*_ga*ODI5NDY2MDg4LjE2NzkxNzI1NjM.*_ga_XE0XLFFF16*MTY3OTE3MjU2Mi4xLjEuMTY3OTE3MjY1My4wLjAuMA..
20 quid up in 86 days is where it goes from here.
I’ve felt like this has been one of the easier shares to predict how the share price would go in recent months. I was confident this would reach £120 and to be honest after the two RNS’ earlier this month I fancied the share price to push on to £130. However since then it’s just bounced between £110 and £120. The recent RNS’ didn’t go down as well as I had hoped, there feels like there are doubts about market share in US sliding a little, the Australian and Irish business falling and there is always the gambling commission white paper uncertainty hanging over UK betting companies. I think at present the share price seems quite reasonable, I don’t see it moving much either way at present. So for that reason I am selling out for the time being.
On other shares I’m invested in, EVG is one I’m intrigued by. Half year results due next week. By no means a cert it’s going to take off but looks well worth a gamble as they are funded for what appears to be the next two years with quite a lot of potential good news.
Well it didn't take long! Another banker bites the dust and all betting companies will benefit.
Get into this share now before England entertain USA on Friday!
When supposedly banker results get overturned, thousands, if not millions of bets go the way of the Bookie. This result is one of the most outrageous in the sport and the bookies will have benefitted enormously, especially on accumulator bets.
I expect the Flutter share price to grow even further as the tournament progresses and await with glee the next 'unexpected' result!
"There's naht so queer as folks" is a very old Yorkshire saying. I bought my first shares in 1964 and markets continue to be very funny old things; legalised betting on sports in the USA is proving to be the latest mystery to me.
Here's a country famous for it's speculative, can-do, Wall Street bullishness. Willing to back unproven technologies with billions and get swindled some of the time by the occasional Elizabeth Holmes and Sam Bankman-Fried. Even willing to pay multiples of annual sales to get into IPO's lacking any form of profit forecast, never mind actual profitability.
Yet, when presented with a new business, already well-established in many other countries, its' enormous initial enthusiasm declines in inverse ratio to the development of that business. The closer we get to enormous profits, so the SP's fester or decline. I scratch my head wondering what they cannot see, and also wondering some of the time what it is they can see, which I'm blind to with my enthusiasm and substantial and ever-increasing financial commitment.
Last night FLTR avoided firm numbers except to say that they are confident that the current addressable market of just less than $10 billion of total bets per annum, will rise to $40 billion by 2030. Fan Duel has 42% market share = $16 billion, which at 8%pa average historic profitability = $1.3 billion of annual profits from the USA alone. Representing $7.40 of earnings per share.
Based on a 2030 P/E of just 15, that means current SP values the rest of the world-wide business at zero, denarra, nut points.
At which I chuckle, and continue to sell other underperforming stocks to reinvest here and in ENT, while astonished that the rest of market ignores such a girl-edged opportunity. Just got to live another eight years.
A £30m share sale is not responsible for a 6% fall in the share price of a £20bn company.
Massachusetts Financial Services Group sold 263,879 shares in Flutter this week. I was scratching my head why this was struggling this week.
I am so confident in this share to rise short, medium and long term.
Really couldn’t have hoped for much better. Fab Duel alone has been valued by an arbitrator as being worth practically as much as Flutter’s market cap. Growth is strong and will only increase, gambling sector is expected to treble between 2021 and 2030, there are still 20 US states to legalise online gambling including California and Florida.
Those who follow this share knows how it works, it will have days where the share price just can’t get going, we are in a trend like that in the last week but there will be days coming soon where this will steam.
Everything is very positive, patience will be key here. I have no doubts at all we will get into the 130s and close to £140 very soon.
Does anyone have an online link to the earning call presentation this morning? Thanks.
It feels like market share down but market well up to allow a decent upgrade ? Surprised they are not a lot better
Agreed, CJ. Be in no hurry to sell. I'm always amused when the sore loser of a legal judgement announces (usually) that they're "very disappointed". Today FoxBet has excelled themselves with a nonsense piece of PR puffery claiming to have "won" because it'll be a few months before FLTR can (if they want to) do a US IPO.
If find this referral to the arbitrator interesting because no facts are disclosed. What is factual is that FLTR owns 95% of FanDuel and Fox has merely an option to acquire 18.6%. Ergo, Fox owns nothing of FanDuel, so how can it "participate" in an IPO, when it has no shares to sell to the public in a flotation? This smacks to me of Fox merely playing legal-silly-beggars and slowing things down.
In fact, I see no reason for FLTR to be in any rush at all for an IPO. The original reason for suggesting one was because Wall Street was very excited in 2020/21 about bookie-plc's and DraftKings was trading in NY at some stupid multiple of revenue, with no sign of ever being profitable. It would have been a good time to sell, say, 5%, at a really silly price. Prudence, indeed pessimism, has replaced that extreme optimism and DKNG's price is down by some 80% from $61 to $11.
This pessimism may have turned with MGM's recent announcement that they can see profitable EBITDA, from their Entain JV, in the current quarter and a full year of cash returns in 2023. PI's are worrying much less about the enormous sums being invested in luring punters onto websites, now that they think they can see an end to these costs.
Thus, imo, the earliest that FLTR might want to float FanDuel in NY would be after the annual results for 2022 are announced in Feb/Mar next year, and even then what's the hurry? The SP should be rising gently, not only between now and then, but also throughout 2023 as quarterly results show ever increasing profitability (he hopes!). Why sell a piece of an appreciating asset? Unless you just want to be able to show that an SP closer to £100 than £200 is grossly undervalued?
In writing this rumination, I've had an evil thought. The devil is always in the fine details of these agreements: I'm wondering if the option agreement says something to the effect that FoxBet's option isn't for 18.6% of all the shares bought by FLTR in December 2020, but for 18.6% of what FLTR still holds on the date the option is exercised? Or the wording is sufficiently unclear that you can argue that point. As always the lawyers come out smelling of roses, financially.
Meantime, some investment house recently pegged an anticipated SP target of £200 on FLTR. I believe that's an understatement as another broker reckons it'll have annual EPS of £10 during '23. Surely with those earnings growing, a PE of just 20 is very undemanding? This optimist is hoping for £300 by 2025. Fingers crossed!
This is going to be some week on this share. FOX have been told what they need to pay to buy into FanDuel and it’s practically the same price as you can buy into Flutter. Flutter is massively undervalued at this price. Wednesday we will get third quarter results and everything points to it being very good - Entain reported very good figures quarterly trading figures last month, the article showing FanDuel is massive market leader in New Yorkand my betting figures for the 3 months in question were really poor. Do not let your shares go cheaply.
Was this outcome a slam dunk win ? in my reading I had no expectation that flutter would guaranteed win
My interpretation of the value to fltr of the ruling is that the 'gap of £2bn' between the company and Fox ;s views has now been closed in favour of fltr. this being 10% of the mcap. The extent to which the sp rises depends on the extent to which the outcome was priced in . I will be disappointed if e do not rise by 5% but we shall see.
Justine,
In the rns today I believe it states that there will not be any FD ipo until the arbitration panel rule (expected in early 2023) around how fox may be able to be involved in that ipo.