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The no drinking, eating, smoking or chewing gum rule for 30 minuted before applies the current LFT drug tests that we use in work.
I would certainly like to know if my saliva test is positive whereas my swab test is negative even if caveats were provided. I’d like to take precautionary measures to protect my family, two of whom are shielding children.
However, the covering letter confirms that Imperial College will only inform NHS Test & Trace if my swab test is negative, and neither me or anyone else will be informed of the result of my saliva test.
If someone tested positive on the spit test but not the nasal swab, would it be unethical not to yell them?
@ Milcait - highly possible
Ophidian
I suspect that the unpleasant nature of the swab tests is what puts people off doing them. The Govt changed its wording to testing ‘capacity’ from tests carried out because so many test kits they issued were never returned. Since test & trace is a key strategy to combat Covid-19 then the saliva test would be the better bet as it’s easy and comfortable to carry out. The gesticulating from Avacta suggests that they have already produced a saliva test which is challenging to be best in class. The news release from HM Govt confirms that they are ‘exploring’ this saliva test with Avacta..... fact. Hopefully, Avacta can deliver within optimal timelines to maximise this opportunity
That’s why I’m interested :-)
When you combine the Sample Collection method AND the sensitivity/specificity of the Test, is there a chance that the LFT is going to actually be more accurate than the whole swab/PCR method?
And that horrible sounding experience is why there are so many poor swabs. I know I’d prefer to spit in a tube over shoving a stick half way in to my skull. It’ll be really interesting to hear the results of this study as it’s not just about the type of sample but the full user experience. It wouldn’t be a surprise for saliva to come out as the winner.
I am not sure its more reassuring BBN posting so much here now. And where has "Michelle" gone from Twitter miss "her" postings.
Thank you Ophidian. No it was not a trick question. I have looked everywhere for references from AVCT and found none to date.
The only guidance is that it is like a pregnancy test, which involves urinating on a stick. So it implies the stick sample but it isn't a given, until it is announced. I appreciate your input on this.
The saliva test was the outright and emphatic winner in terms of ease, comfort etc. The swab test involved firstly scraping the swab against your tonsils.... which caused gagging. You then had to stick the same swab right up your nose until you felt resistance.... this caused coughing & watery eyes. As for the saliva test, you just think of a great big fresh cream, chocolate eclair, spit into a tube and you are done !!!!
Spike66
Which method came across the winner out of the 2 In your view ?
Note they did think they might be ready in June away back when this was announced .
AfamaMan mentioned it might be the BAMS test is that a possibility ? Apparently source sample could be "the sample which could be saliva, nasopharyngeal swabs or serum. "
---------------
Adeptrix’s novel BAMS platform combines enrichment of the sample to improve sensitivity with the power of mass-spectrometry to improve specificity. Hundreds of samples per day can be analysed by a single technician using BAMS, exceeding the capacity of single PCR machine, making BAMS a very attractive high throughput technique for COVID-19 screening in the clinical setting.
The diagnostic test will allow hospitals around the world to utilise their existing installed base of mass spectrometers that are not currently used for COVID-19 testing, thus contributing significantly to the increase in global testing capacity. Avacta’s recently developed Affimer reagents that bind the SARS-COV-2 spike protein will be used to provide the capture and enrichment of the virus particle from the sample which could be saliva, nasopharyngeal swabs or serum.
Development of a BAMS test capable of diagnosing whether a person has the COVID-19 infection at any specific moment is a quick process and the companies are aiming to have a BAMS test ready for clinical validation, regulatory approval and manufacturing in June. Adeptrix and Avacta are already in discussion with large-scale manufacturing partners to rapidly deploy this new high throughput test."
@Spike - the system you describe is the standard way to give a saliva test for PCR testing. Anyone who has had their genoe sequenced by 23andMe or someone like that will have done the exact same thing.
Ophidian (3rd quartile Neandathal, 45% Northern European, no Alzheimer markers can smell asparagus etc etc...)
@BBN - really no more than popular wisdom and that it would be the most simplistic execution of a test.
Personally - I like the "add a solvent" option as I think that can give way more options for the optimisation and overall responsiveness of the test. You may know better but I'm not aware to date whether there has been any guidance fromt he company as to whether or not the proposed LFD is "spit direct" or use a system a bit like Spike just described.
Ophidian
Ophidian- as much as I'd like the Imperial test to be using Avacta test I'm fairly sure it's not. I think they are validating their own propriety technology called DNAnudge.
https://www.eenewseurope.com/news/lab-free-dna-based-covid-19-test-uses-saliva
@Ophidian Out of interest, where or what assumptions have you employed, to deduce that the AVCT test is a spit stick test?
Yes, there was a Fill line which you had to hit. It wasn’t just one ‘spit’..... more like 2 or 3. They instructions suggested that you think of your favourite food if you were struggling !!!!
@Spike66 Thank you fr sharing, that is most interesting.
Here is the Optigene press release for the test that is being trialed by the UK government, which is presumably the nasal/throat swab test you received.
http://www.optigene.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/OptiGene-Press-Release.pdf
From the press release ;
" This specific and extremely sensitive test can operate directly from nasal and throat swabs to produce results in less than 20 minutes."
So it is really interesting that the trial is also testing a non swab saliva test.
Whilst we shouldn't jump to conclusions, we do know that UK government is very much aware of AVCT and the government's own press release on the Optigene trial, states that ;
"we are currently exploring the potential of other no-swab saliva-based coronavirus tests with companies, including Chronomics, Avacta, MAP Science and Oxford Nanoimaging (ONI)."
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-saliva-test-for-coronavirus-piloted-in-southampton
I did look at this on my twitter feed when the Guardian piece was published on 22nd June.
https://twitter.com/BigBiteNow/status/1274959152394240000?s=20
Essentially Chronomics are looking at a no swab postal service test system, which requires min. 4 days turn around.
MAP Science is looking at a mass spectrometer test option, much like the AVCT BAMS test.
Oxford Nanoimaging (ONI) are microscopy based and so are working in a supportive role (with Southamption Uni) and don't look to be producing a test of their own.
So the AVCT candidate would clearly be of most interest to UK government and by conducting this trial, clearly more information on its uses can be gleaned.
Knowing that tests are generally set up against specific sample retrieving methods (note the issues with Superdrug and the Abbot tests), then what test are being used to test these samples?
Not really Spike no. Unless the spit stick is designed to use an additional solvent (like the liquid that you liberated into to vial) then this will totally change the "wicking" properties of the sample. Doesn't rule out BAMS however - in fact it kind of rules it IN
Ophidian
All makes sense Spike. One last question. id they require a minimum volume 0 i.e. was there a line or something on the container you had to spit more than ??
Ophidian
Thanks Ophidian,
My assumption was that they would do the spit stick test back at the lab once using the samples. Is that feasible ?
Instructions were NOT to eat, drink, smoke or chew gum for 30 minutes before giving the saliva sample
Thanks Spike. Then it is not the Avacta spit stick under test in all likelihood.
Ophidian
No worries Ophidian.
You spit into a tube which has a small funnel on the top. You remove the funnel then click the lid, which contains a liquid in a sealed chamber, onto the tube. This releases the liquid into the tube to mix with the saliva sample. You then seal the tube with a screw cap and put it in the fridge until the courier comes on the same day.
Hope this helps