Member Info for WolfofWarks

I’m holding still.

Think this is in the doldrums until the WH raise is done.

IG are the best platform IMO.

I didn’t really get on with HL and their fees were more expensive.

‘ Well because they have their primary listing in the UK, other jurisdictions would look carefully on any sanction placed on them by the FCA. I actually think for example that the coupon payment that was successfully wired was a near thing / squeaker. If Evraz gets sanctioned just for being a big Russian company, even in the UK where their sales and operations are small, the effect is the same; pariah status in countries that respect the FCA and/or the UK office of sanctions etc.’

Ideally they would need the US/EU onboard I guess.

Iodan - I’m pretty sure the government are well aware of the legal basis of all this. Why are Evraz lawyers not chomping at the bit to have the suspension lifted? I said earlier that I’m not sure how effective UK sanction on Evraz would be given the lack of commercial Uk activity.

I’m unsure on the delisting process but I’d like to think the government do not have the power to delist who they please (or that they would unless in the case of insolvency) and should be looking out for the interests of the minority holders which is what the suspension is designed to do.

Penguin - Yep stuck between a rock and a hard place. Here’s a connumdrum for you now. If you were sat on the board at this time reflecting would you rather be a global business or concentrated in Russia?

‘But again we aren't sanctioned as there is no proof of that claim and the xompany has officially rejected it as false..what's your argument the Russian holders or the steel for tanks...you seem to have moved from one to the other’

It’s all the same issue - evraz has possibly sold steel intended for the Russian military, RA owns a sizeable stake in the business and so profits from the sale and possibly controls the company with his probable Russian counterparts.

I do not believe the government need to prove this, it’s not a murder trial. If it was as cut and dry as you suggest why haven’t Evraz legal team been all over this? Why did all the directors resign? Is it not more probable that as this company is majority Russian owned that they are sitting tight until this is all resolved, maybe they don’t went to kick the honest nest and provoke further sanctions? If these parties are not connected why is there no shareholder angst or rebellion? Why is it left to PIs on forums?

Penguin - this is an interesting point you raise. I don’t know if the UK government could successfully sanction evraz or whether it would have any affect. I’m no expert but very little of the income is derived in the UK - we areva brass plaque on the wall. I think when I looked yesterday less than 10% of the income was made in Europe, it’ll be a trickle to the UK. Presumably they have banking facilities all over the world, not just with UK banks.

Iodan - sanctions are not imposed to counter law breaking, They are imposed to cripple the recipient financially, cut them off from their money and property. They are forward looking, not to be applied retrospectively to correct prior alleged wrongdoing.

The government are not saying the alleged selling of steel to the Russian military is illegal, only that it may have contributed to the current situation and we are going to make life difficult if you want to do that in future using your UK assets.

Ioadan - if they want proof they only have it look at the voting register history. This is how corporate governance works.

Lobbying and vested interests are how resolutions pass through. If you can collaborate in a 70% group you have the unfetted power of decision.

Penguin. I don’t think the government think they are a ‘bunch of Russians’. They think RA has probable links to Putin (evidence supported by his go between role in the peace talks) and the steel that the company has sold in Russia might well have ended up in the defence spend.

I don’t think it’s that difficult to understand our governments position. Wishful thinking only goes so far.

I’m not xenophobic. I actually think there is more going on in this war than what is playing out in the western media. While I don’t condone Russia’s actions I don’t think it’s quite as clear cut or one sided as the news coverage suggests.

They’ve been at war for years, Russians have been vilified and killed in Ukraine long before the war started. They poked the bear by trying to advance NATO membership, despite signing the minsk agreement.

Penguin.

The company hasn’t been sanctioned,

It’s got nothing to do with the rule of law or due process. It’s simply looking at a shareholder register and the accounts and seeing that 40% of the turnover earned in Russia and the major shareholders are all Russian controlling 70%+. You don’t have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out they might be running the company. Especially with one of them being the former king term CEO.

I thought this would be further ahead in the receivers now, but I guess being dampened by cost inflation and reduced consumer confidence.

I would have thought Greggs would be winning off the more expensive places and whenever I pop in customers are still queuing out the door.

‘ Evraz says not the case. ,
Evraz have said that RA doesn’t have control. I think it’s safe to say that if you have a handful of long term associates controlling over 70% of the voting rights as a collective they have control.

‘ Well it should be innocent until proven guilty but the world's gone mad so who knows’

That’s the burden of proof for criminal law, beyond reasonable doubt, etc, etc. I assume these sanctions are a civil penalty and therefore a lower burden of proof.

That said I’m not a lawyer.

‘ Once it’s proven that he doesn’t have effective legal ownership or control of the company,’

The Russian contingent clearly have control of this company, one of them being the former long term CEO. Hence why it’s still sat in suspension and highly unlikely to return to trading any time soon regardless of a peace deal without a drastic change in who owns and controls the voting rights.

Hi Oracle. Apple have taken a massive bite out of Meta’s marketing income model by tightening their privacy settings and Google are about to embark on something similar.

MZ has got to repoint his whole model and is now pinning his future growth hopes on the metaverse. That and like the rest of big tech the valuations had got super frothy.

So I don’t think in the case of Meta you can say there is nothing wrong with the underlying company, it’s got serious challenges. Don’t know too much about Ali Baba other than the yanks no longer have an appetite for overseas and in particular Chinese ADRs.

JA - seriously you consider yourself as being sanctioned? Do you know how RA made his money - there’s a good Panorama program on the BBC Iplayer if you need a refresh?

I’d be fascinated to know how the commercials going at the moment.

If you look at the segmented turnover in the 2021 accounts the region split is roughly:

Russia 40%
Asia 25%
Americas 20%
Europe 7%
Other 8%

I think you’ve got to assume that Americas (assuming mostly USA/Canada) and Europe is being decimated and Russia will be holding up. The key is what is happening in Asia.