Member Info for toneman

Long term. But if short term gains outweigh my long term projection then I do take profits in case of a short term reversal. On a good opportunity like ITM and others of the past 18-24 months my small sells have turned out to be a little premature. But that's a pretty good problem to have I guess. I've only had a handful of opportunities to reinvest gains at lower prices, but none of it dramatically affects my long term holding.

Neat, thanks Bilbs. I found one at Fountain Valley that claims to be 100% green. I wonder if any of them actually make the H2 on site?

Opera, this is what I read, but I'm wondering if I've MISread it. It's hard to tell quite what they think they're the first of...let me know what you think. And if you can dig up a 'green' source for California that would clear things up. Cheers.
https://fuelcellsworks.com/news/nations-first-green-hydrogen-energy-station-expected-2022/

opera, I'm pretty sure I read just the other day that the very first green hydrogen refuelling in USA was about to open or be constructed, that means all the ones in California have to have been grey hydrogen up to now.

kontiki, even 400 stations would mean you'd never be more than about 15-20 miles from one. I'd probably buy a hydrogen car if there were only 100 garages, with an average of 50 miles spacing. Please sign and share our petition for hydrogen forecourts...
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/561614

It's such a monumental changeover to fully replace fossil and there are so many variables it's just going to be really messy.
With so many solutions vying to take the lead position there's going to be a hell of a lot of waste along the way.

I see it a bit like the transition we went through with household lighting over the last couple of decades. Anyone who knew anything about LEDs knew that they would eventually be the better solution, but they were just a little bit too far behind when various governments felt they had to take a position on energy saving. Consequently we all had no choice but to buy poor performing fluorescents for a while. Now LEDs are nice and bright and switch on instantly we're all happy again.

I think it's going to be the same with battery EV. They're going to dominate for the next couple of decades at least because so many car companies don't even want to manufacture anything else and governments (ours at least) don't want to support two technologies at once. I've come to terms with this because I figure there won't even be enough green hydrogen available for at least a couple of decades to support all transport going to fuel cell so it would have inevitably been grey hydrogen (or at least fossil based) that I'd have been using. My trade off then (and I'm not exactly happy about it) is that I will use a plug-in petrol hybrid with 30+ miles battery range. That will satisfy zero emissions for local shopping trips and within cities but will still give me the same convenience and similar CO2 emissions as I would have with a fuel cell car through to about 2040. Beyond that, if battery cars are still poor performers for long range convenience I could see hydrogen cars piggy-backing on the infrastructure that I expect would already be in place for trucks and heavier transport.

If it hasn't panned out that way by then it would suggest that either battery tech really did get good enough to be the full solution or green hydrogen grew phenomenally quickly.

nuri, what are you basing your ITM valuation on? The half-year report only really shows the past, what data did you use for present value and future value for both BP and ITM?

Bilbs, are you thinking that the often talked about Australia, North Africa, and Middle East hydrogen generation is a non-starter? Can we really get the renewable electricity from those places without hydrogen, either directly or indirectly?

The term 'rare-earth' elements seems to have been hijacked in modern times. I guess it was probably following the development of Neodymium into extremely powerful magnets, for their size, that the term gained a wider audience. As far as I know Neodymium is the most used, actual rare-earth element, within the EV and wind-farm sector (correct me if I'm wrong) being heavily used in the motors and generators. Now it seems to have been adopted by the general public that anything that isn't tin, coal, copper, iron, or aluminuim that we've been mining for ages must be rare and therefore, having vaguely heard the term before, must be rare-earth. On the contrary, for example, Lithium isn't a rare-earth element and isn't particularly rare either. But like a lot of elements it just isn't found in high levels of concentration so you can't just open a mine and chip off a piece of solid Lithium. Although generally abundant throughout the earth's crust, the trick is to find these more challenging elements in high enough concentrations that their separation following the mining of vast amounts of ore is economically beneficial. Exactly the same challenge is what we're facing with green hydrogen, tons of hydrogen about but can we economically separate it from the molecules it's rather attached to, and also economically transport it to its destination.

For those who like to follow this, the next APPG Meeting on Hydrogen is on Tuesday 23 March, 11:15-12:15.

It's titled "The role of hydrogen in powering industry". It's a Zoom session. If you are interested in attending email n.ahmed@connectpa.co.uk to request joining instructions.

Seems like the Government could be a little smarter about this. A lot of people accept the idea of offsetting, like planting trees to offset airplane travel. If the Government were to commit to, say, 10 times the amount of green projects (no, not just planting trees!) than the carbon pollution this coal mine would generate then it might be palatable whilst the coal remains a 'necessity'. Such projects could even include trial sites for steel produced using hydrogen instead. There's going to be a lot of pollution continuing for the next 30 years whilst we tackle the big problems. You really just have to be seriously trying to address them and carrying people with you at the same time.

I guess as long as Linde are still supplying the gas they don't much care who's electrolyser is purchased.

Interesting all-German affair. I wonder how much arm-twisting goes on for Linde to be using a Siemens electrolyser instead of an ITM-Linde unit?

Cryptic title taskmaster, but a good overview of the new HDRO hydrogen ETF.

Would it help if I said "This stonck's gonna soar, watch this space, £10 end of the week"?
Urrrrm....
Nope, didn't think so.

It's good to see another of these hydrogen ETFs start up. There's quite a lot of detail available for this one which is good. It's starting quite small though (I don't know if that is normal or not). Current fund value is only $2.7m. They hold 28056 shares of ITM ($200k ish). Funny, some posters here even hold more than that. You can download the full list here...
https://www.defianceetfs.com/hdro

It'll be interesting to watch how quickly the fund adds to the shareholdings if it's a popular ETF.

I've had another niggle for a while regarding H2 in a nationwide piped grid network. I assume that you have to pretty much fill the whole pipe network with H2 before you can start drawing gas from it. If that's the case then you surely must have a permanently full network and never be able to syphon off the last dregs from it. I can't remember how many TWh our national gas network can hold, but who pays for the gas required to simply fill it in the first place, the stuff that essentially never ever gets used.

It seems a little different to an electricity grid network. The basic copper wires are already full of electrons and all you have to do is apply a voltage across it to shift them along a bit to use their energy.

Does anyone know where my thinking might be a little bit wrong?

That's why I invested in CWR. I see the optimum product is steel cell 'boiler' where you maximise the efficiency by taking both electricity and heat from the fuel cell. Being agnostic to gas type it's a drop in solution and works long term on H2 as well. Not sure enough people think the same way though.

On a side note, I'm not convinced you can store liquid H2 in salt caverns. How do you keep it liquid down there? Also not convinced you can store H2 pressurised to 700Bar down there either. Have you a technical paper that proves otherwise?

I don't put any faith in anything written on Seeking Alpha. I missed out spectacularly on Fuel Cell Energy after I finally gave in assuming that Seeking Alpha new something I didn't. Big mistake, over 10x missed.

Fortunately I stuck with Plug Power whilst they were trashing it a couple of years ago and that turned out great for me.

Seeking Alpha don't seem to be able to judge growth opportunities properly. It's fine if you have a company with a stable long-running operation, but any fool can do those sums.

Oh dear. James May is getting rid of his Toyota Mirai. Just too few stations in the UK to make it practical. I did tweet him the hydrogen refuelling petition, but I didn't get any response (not even sure if he read it - Twitter is not my forte).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tNutYL0h2M