Member Info for ringworm

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when it hits 3p I will buy again ;)

A 10M debt is not too bad if they are trading in profit with a turnover of 40M or more, and the 2M a year needed to repay phoenix over 5 years is 5% of turnover and given that publications trades at 0.8M profit, the target is NET profit of 10% after all dues except debt servicing, which is entirely within reach. SP is defined by the dividend paid at 5% to serious investors, so with a current MCAP of around 20M, 5% is half the target profits or only 1M a year. If only half the target profits are made, then no div, but debt free in 5 years, then div of 5% defines the present share price. Worst I think is 2.5M NET profit which slows growth but still achieves debt free in 5 years, yield is then 2.5% of MCAP.

well I think as a long term investment the price is OK just now, its less than I sold at, but more than I expected. In a few years when dividends return at 5% levels the price will probably strengthen to 6 or 7p. Till then my remaining holding will sit ...

and going nowhere fast ...

Samples - No - you would send typical samples, including the lowest grade because you would want the customer to know exactly what would be delivered, and its more profitable to be able to ship "dirty" product and lots of it than just to have a market for the "Cherry" seams. Its a long haul business and it should have a life of 20 years or more. This is just the beginning and the plan would be to ship all grades for concrete, and if any is poorer quality its better to get it passed early on. Same goes for the perlite, we know that the top grade can be sold, but can the poorer stuff be shipped as well - if so ship it first and keep the treasures in reserve for a better price later...

Now with the professor on board, are all director deals now "Insider deals" ? Sell your shares now to help keep the price down ... I will open my wallet to make room for them ;)

whilst we wait for directors salaries to be paid in shares again - as cheap as they can get them - then we will see movement later.

at this price, last chance to get in cheap today maybe ...

MCAP now at 18 Million - same as the debt ...

The confusiion arises from misreading the details. The phoenix investment is just shy of �20 Million in tota valuel, comprising :- 1) purchase of debt from RBS at an undisclosed price - possibly as little as �2Milllion, 2) purchase of rights and assets of SG Investments from the recievers. 3) New shares issued comprising approx 58% of new total shares for �6.2 Million This does indeed value the group at approx �10 Million, net of their debt which phoenix will have aquired. As phoenix will then hold a majority share in the businees and have one of their people on the board, they will have leverage to regrow the business, but they also own first charge on the assets. This poses a significant risk to small investors, hence the flight. Everyones holding will be diluted in effect by half so Lombard will only own 15% instead of 29. Phoenix do make healthy profits for their investors but there is a risk that they might slash and burn. I certainly do not see a return to the previous "profitability" which paid such lavish dividends in recent years by in effect operating a ponzy scheme... If stability can be achieved over 2-3 years then the firm will have turned around, but I expect to see profits in the sub million region for the forseeable future, and a share price just below 3p

3p would tempt me back again ;)

Tristan Chapple, a director of Phoenix, talks about the trust�s unusual approach: a small number of holdings and its search for very undervalued companies.

Its the RBS thing which is most worrying. As to the reverse takeover thing, if this happens then we may be suspended on 30th March. BUT Phoenix Asset Management UK are a good outfit, and in for the long haul so unlikely to scrap and asset strip, and they have the cash to support SGI. also someone must be buying all the shares which are beind sold today ... as the price has not moved and spread is small...

I believ that SGF is subsidiary set up to hold the debt of SGI when purchased (Stanley Gibbons Finance ?) o Phoenix UK Fund and SGF (a wholly owned subsidiary of the Company) together acquiring the right, title and interest of the Group's existing lender, RBS, in the RBS Debt as follows: :- � �7.0 million in principal sum of the RBS Debt will be acquired by SGF; and � the balance of the RBS Debt, in the principal sum of up to �10.5 million, will be acquired by Phoenix UK Fund. ----------------------------------------------------------------- so Phoenix will buy the debt from RBS - presumably at a significant discount as SGI is in effect bankrupt. The next bit is quite clear :- o Phoenix UK Fund will acquire all the right, title and interest of the Group in the SG Guernsey Intercompany Indebtedness in consideration of a payment of �2.75 million; This will be a cash purchase from SGI ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- o a cash injection of �6.2 million by way of the Subscription for 248,000,000 new Ordinary Shares (or such greater number of Ordinary Shares as shall result in Phoenix UK Fund holding a minimum of 58 per cent. ------------------------------------- So both the previous posts are partially correct, Phoenix is paying �6.2 Million + �2.75 Million, and aquiring the debt and rights for an undisclosed sum. Phoenix does not need to tell anyone exactly how much it pays RBS, and I dont know exactly how much of Phoenix itself is owned by RBS or its subsidiaries, but if Phoenix is substantially owned by RBS group, then the consideration may be as little as �1 for all the debt. I like many others have sold most of my holding having averaged down at 3p and 4p, and what I hold now is half the profits as a bottom drawer investment. Good luck with the long term, I would certainly reinvest here again at 2.5p - 3p in the future.

Phoenix will create a subsidiary SGF which will own the purchase of shares for �6.2 Million CASH which will be a new issue at 2.5p - or abot 40% of todays price causing share dilution so that they have 58% Phoenix will buy the debt from RBS and own this in its subdiary. So SGF will own 58% of SGI, AND own all the debt. SGI will have some working capital to recover. And a new director to look after the interests of its asset. So if you bought at 3p, you have made your money so get out. The business will have a long term future in its core business, and if you are here for the long haul it may be too early to get on board. I predict some volatility, so the day traders and shorters will be playing here for a few weeks yet.

well at those prices I expect so .... nice to see the bounce .. ;)

The main use for concrete is in construction such as road and rail bridges, public buildings such as Hospitals and government offices, and to a lesser extend in private dwellings and blocks. The engineering requirements for strength and durability are specified for the concrete supplier who would be the final customer for these aggregates. The architects or civil engineers may specify the grade of concrete or simply the minimum requirements, but often these properties are used in calculations in the design stage. Take up would be a slow and gradual process as US standards agencies take new formulations into account and these in turn filter through to the architects and designers. Mostly construction companies do not care about durability, or quality, they just want the job finished and paid for.

Stock value was marked down by �47 Million a year ago so your concerns have been addressed. Some of that stock was of course owned by SGI Investments, and the winding up should yield some surplus cash. Otherwise we all use SG Book value for trade. For example comonwealth Mounted Mint at 20% of book, used at 5% of book. The scarcer an item is the closer to SG book price, sometimes at auction multples of SG book are achieved especially for "Hard to find" items. SG only deal in better quality items, which means they buy collections, strip out the very best, and dump the remainder back in auction. We all work in similar ways skimming the top value from collections and selling off remainders to the "ebay traders". Its nice to get cash for trash.

At todays price an issue of 143 Million new shares at 3.5p would provide the �5 Million and restore mcap to 11.27 Million. And as its working capital its not really dilution.