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Hello BumbleB,

Yes, you make very good points and there is indeed a feeling of integrity when companies dont over hype themselves.

Just two problems with that at the moment though.

1) Much of the information at the moment will be on technology advances/testing and stages reached rather than contracts etc. That sort of information will not reach threshold for an RNS and in its absence may look like 'no news', even 'no progress' or worse 'no news is bad news' if it goes on for months. AIM share prices do tend to drift down on boredom or uncertainty.

2) If this means a temporary drift down in the share price not much of a problem as when good news is finally released sentiment and share price will move to their level.
However, if in the meantime there is a fundraising or any kind of buy in at a depressed level it will artificially increase dilution to the disadvantage of shareholders and ultimately the company.

Lets just hope the new policy is because John Rennocks knows there are a lot of exciting RNS soon to come and this scenario will not play out. An AIM company still developing and testing is not like a FTSE company and managing it in the same way may not be the best plan. He does after all have a duty of care to AFC whatever the strict reporting requirements are.

I think the comments levelled at MMs are likely all well founded, but it is there job to make a market and sailing just within the rules while they do that is fair game.

My own thought are that until an AIM stock is valued on profit the share price is often news driven. The new policy on information to shareholders may not be doing us any favours and I think John Rennocks is making a poor decision on this. All fine if we just need to wait for all the information and consequent value of our shares. However, if there is a fundraising/buy in to come at this depressed share price I think this 'no news' policy is doing shareholders and the company a disservice.

Echoes, have you read the aim of the alkammonia project.
It is research/technology development with the aim of proof of concept. To build and test a prototype.
It is not to develop a final commercial product with sustained testing.
We know the state of development of the fuel cell and that works.
We know the state of the cracker and ZBT say that works.

Give your alarmist posts a break until there is a report. For projects like this the date for a final report is often some time after the close date for the project so I dont know why you expect us to have heard anything.

Big projects like alkammonia have a timeline before any reports are due to be submitted. This is certainly not by the last day of the project. The final power up report has only just been published when the project ended last year sometime.

I see no reason to expect a detailed report to us in the near future. It may get a mention if there is post period reporting in the interim results.

Great to see Desertwolf and Beachandsurf posting here.Both longstanding valued posters on the iii board, with very useful and informed posts.<br /><br />As BumbleB says, the beauty of ammonia is as a storage form of readily available hydrogen. Storing hydrogen is expensive in volume. Storing it as ammonia takes less volume of tank and may be a cheaper way to make the numbers add up for energy storage.

Are people expecting interim results soon?

They seem to have been late June or first few days of July in the past, but I think the rules are within 3 months of the end of the reporting period. So if this is until end of April they only need to be reported by end of July.
I am pretty sure interim result in July were mentioned at the AGM. Is there any reason to expect them much sooner than a month from now?

Yes, as I said it is hydrogen to electricity conversion cost which is 70cents for Gen Cell and somewhere around 10 cents and hopefully lower for AFC per Kwh. Indeed, the price for ammonia plus cracker will add to the sale price per Kwh for electricity. However, what people pay for a reliable electricity supply in the middle of nowhere is also potentially very high. I have seen prices of up to a dollar per Kwh. Perhaps this rather than the chlor-alkali market is where we need to be to have a profitable product at the moment.

From the AGM it was said that Gen Cell have a conversion cost of 70 cents per KW, while AFC are somewhere around the 10 cents per KW and aiming for closer to 5 cents if they get to 4 years electrode longevity. This sounds like our unit can be far cheaper than the Gen Cell.

Yes, was pleased to see my icon was pink, but apart from that it is a disaster!

Yes but a bottle is a very expensive way to buy it. Electrolysis is expensive but ITM are quoting �3-4 per kilo to produce it and we are looking for cheaper/free hydrogen sources.

A 65 Kg cylinder is an industry standard K cylinder. It contains volume 5.3 cubic meters. Hydrogen is 11.126 cubic meters per Kg. So this cylinder contains 0.476 Kg hydrogen. As posted earlier, energy in 1 Kg hydrogen should give 39 KWh/Kg. So, 0.476 Kg hydrogen at 90% availability and 60% efficiency would give 10 KWh. The AFC presentation is several years old, so we have increased availability and efficiency since then to raise from 8 to 10 KWh. Stop being so stupid Echoes.

No, but with efficiency at 60% (target 65%) that is 23.7 KWh per kilo.

We were told the ammonia cracker had arrived at Dunsfold two weeks before the AGM then the cracker and fuel cell need to be plumbed together, but this is not a major new technology advance. Hopefully this should not take too long and this combination should be commercial at the conversion price of around 10 cents we have. I also dont understand where 5 years comes from. If Gencell can be selling units with a conversion price of 70 cents we should be fine. The need for lower conversion cost is to crack the chlor-alkali market etc, hence the three new venture areas where we can make money earlier.

From the AGM, I understand the Gencell conversion cost per KWh is 70 cents. We should do well in this market when we have a backup power from ammonia product with conversion at 10 cents (may be more if it included the price of cracking the ammonia).

Yes, as Bumble B says, a model could be to to use the vented hydrogen from the chlor-alkali industry, convert it to electricity and sell it into the grid or to someone else. It is expensive to transport, so would need to be local. So conversion cost (currently around 10 cents) plus cholor alkali company cut for the hydrogen would need to be more than the price for green energy sold into the grid. We probably still have a way to go for many markets to be profitable. However, the price for electricity per KWh is very variable. Googling 'price per KWh' suggests the most expensive is on islands where it is expensive imported diesel and can be 50c per KWh or more. There is also the issue of places where the grid is flaky and the price for a reliable supply supplemented by diesel generator backup is high. In these markets it looks very likely we could make a combined solution which would be profitable with what we have. Does require a source of cheap hydrogen. This also ignores the issue of subsidies which are high in South Korea and seems to be a potential market. Also the value in places where the water produced has an added value. In the middle east this may be high. Am intrigued by the 'novel hydrogen production methods' alluded to and under discussion. AB said more than once at the AGM that electrolysis is very expensive, so may not be that. There is cracking ammonia and conversion from biogas about, or new catalyst in the press which may in fact be decades from being a commercial product. The price of this hydrogen plus our conversion cost (the lower the better) versus finding a niche where we can make a profit is the key to contracts and sales. The most exciting option to me seems to be the hydrogen battery. As AB said at the AGM, the price or solar energy can be down to 2 cents per KWh, but this needs to be balanced to provide supply when it is not sunny. There are electrolysis and storage companies eg McPhy which would seem (in my naive understanding of the issue) to make a bolt together solution to making a battery. AB did mention that he had not spoken to McPhy, but am sure there are others. Perhaps whatever 'novel production' may be in the pipeline this will be cheaper and better. I tried to guestimate the price per KWh for electricity passing through a Tesla battery. Based on the cost alluded to for their Australian installation and a comment that their batteries degrade after 200 cycles I got to about 1 dollar per KWh. This may be very far off the true cost. Does anyone have any idea about this. However, hydrogen batteries might be an area where we can compete on price per KWh. So, it is all about finding a product and niche where local resources/needs/prices/subsidies mean we can provide something where we can make a profit. I think that AB will be excellent at finding and selling into such niches when (and hopefully it is about now), he is able to tell customers the product works.

The reason this is needed is because many companies in the chlor alkali have very contracts at cheap rates for their electricity. To compete with these prices and get contracts to use the free hydrogen they vent we need our cost per KWh to drop further possibly to the 5 cent ish level. So, to target markets where we can compete on price we are now developing the three areas of solutions, power generation, backup power and battery. These markets hopefully have current price per KWh where we can compete and make a profit with the current 2 year longevity electrodes. No detail of these prices was given at the AGM, they probably vary a lot from situation to situation. It is a question of finding niches where we can make profit from massive markets.

Mr and Mrs Notes would argue over the breakfast table not on a public board, so I dont believe at all that Echoes could be Mrs Notes.

To concur with eddietheo: We both accounted for the ladies at the AGM (excluding wendy and Lisa Jordan) I was there (dark hair, navy dress, came to the pub) Also Mrs Notes (blond hair, with Mr Notes, came to the pub) we saw no other ladies and we were confused. can you tell us what you look like please Echoes.

Not sure if this has been posted http://www.rgh2.com/ They seem to have a scalable hydrogen generation from biogas system called OSOD (stands for on site on demand!) which reduces need for hydrogen storage (but can store) and produces high purity hydrogen. Does not mention price, but combined with an AFC fuel cell could make for an electricity generating system for isolated/rural areas not on the grid. If that replaced expensive imported/transported diesel the price point for electricity per KWh is sometimes very high. Biogas can be generated in quite simple construction and fed 'straight from the cowshed'.

This is potentially fantastic news. A holy grail is after all storage of green energy for when the wind is not blowing and the sun not shining. News that ITM are realistically moving their product to be a battery/storage facility is potentially huge.