Our latest Investing Matters Podcast episode with QuotedData's Edward Marten has just been released. Listen here.
Yes, this is exciting. Topped up at 114.2p. ImmunoInsights is going like the clappers, while for me the elephant in the corner is the early CDT lung (et al), which is progressing as fast as can be expected. Expecting contracts this year. Please don't buy us!
Surprised it's falling this morning on this news. Can see your point about the finance though, Trek. For me, if I wait I'll probably forget and miss it! Long term I can't see how this will not be a bargain.
ATB, everyone.
PS. We may have to kiss the CDT prospects in Russia farewell for now. :(
That's really useful to know, Sax, thank you.
Topped up this morning. As always, though, the late bird!
The question that's hovering around in the back of my mind is, these are "heavily pre-treated, late-stage cancer patients". Forgive me, but they are kind of on death row. What on earth would happen if used on earlier stage cancers?!
Does anyone know why only these latest stage patients have been selected? And has there been any indication of the likely effect on earlier stage cancers? [And also, might Bex slow down the rate of metastes?]
Venture Life Group got their results published yesterday on their mouthwash Dentyl. Also a screwed up trial for something that works. [And yes, I was invested there, too! Bad day.]
And the clinical phase finished last APRIL.
Just want to say that I really liked the way Trek put it this morning, "Losing was always a responsible risk."
We all knew it was binary. There was a risk we all took, knowing that it could fail, for a reward. Each took their decision as to amount in light of their situation. All is not lost yet, IMV, but yes, it's an awful hit right now, and of course may not come back at all.
Doc83: "My gut feeling is that SNG have been shafted big time and didn’t know their drug was going to be administered along with another drug/steroid."
Absolutely agree. What a horror story for them. It may be that most administering medics simply refused to hold off on the steroids, knowing of course that they knew best. Investors in Faron Pharmaceuticals have known for ages that interferon and steroids don't mix. Whole trial, costing millions, rendered pointless. Radically effective drug for many chest infections delayed for years, if not lost for good. Lives lost....
Something of a pity.
Hi Agricore. I think one of us is misunderstanding the other. Your points:
1. I agree. I'm an example. Immunocompromised as I am I certainly wouldn't be going to the pub on a Saturday night, as I did the other day, without having found ways - like Dentyl - to minimise the risk.
2. Absolutely I agree, and that's why for me this is still so urgent. As I've said before, this is cheap, accessible right across the world, and it works.
3. Again I agree. I'm a believer!
4. I'm no expert, but I think both are essential - however peer review is no use without the numbers to review.
5. I truly hope so.
And I'm glad you mentioned the Chinese. They're not fools, they're worried sick about their poor vaccine + Omicron and progeny of, and may well pick up on this. If these competent marketers can get their act together for China VLG could as you say still do well. Meanwhile the rest of the world can go on breeding variants. I think Dentyl could help to stop that, my beef is that now we need another trial which will take forever.
Some quick thoughts on those details:
1. Surprised that they confined themselves just to hospital inpatients. No wonder they had trouble recruiting. So many outside also with viral loads in the saliva, far less worries about survival, and no co-morbidities. And given that - astonishingly to me - the only practical area where they seemed to be considering application was dental appointments then ambulant outpatients would seem to me to be more appropriate.
2. So with only 78 volunteers of which 27 had live virus (due to the time the disease had had to progress by the time they were in hospital), they had only enough patients for 6/7 for each of the 3 oral rinses they were testing plus the saline control: Normasol. Thus they were not going to achieve anything like useful statistical results.
3. VERY surprised indeed that "saliva was collected before rinsing (baseline), and at 1-, 15-, 30-, and 60-minutes post-rinsing", and not at say 12 and 24 hour periods afterwards, as well. For Dentyl normal use is twice a day, so 12 hour is very relevant.
4. Dentyl had 7 patients. IT WORKED. Far, far superior to the others. "Impressively, in 3/8 patients treated with Dentyl Dual Action, no live virus was recovered at any timepoint after the initial rinse" - but of course that is just up to 1 hour.
It appears that Dentyl just about wipes the throat clean, exactly as the in vitro results indicated 16 months ago. The virus does minimal harm in the throat, but while the throat is clean it will be far less likely to be passing the infection to the lungs where it does become dangerous, and while it builds up again the body is learning to fight it. That's what I think! And that's why I'm gutted that this trial is such a damp squib.
But at least - at last - finally - we have the results.....
For those willing to take the time to decipher it....!
"Although a subset of mouthwashes were effective in vitro, it was important to determine their effectiveness in vivo, where virus is being shed continually in the oropharynx. A randomised clinical trial was undertaken to measure the antiviral efficacy of mouthwashes following a 30 second rinse. 78 hospital in-patients with PCR-diagnosed COVID 19 were recruited, following invitation of over 400 to participate. Despite a positive PCR test in the preceding 14 days, only 27/78 patients had live SARS-CoV2 present in their baseline saliva. Recent studies show that live virus is almost never detected beyond 9 days post-symptom onset in immunocompetent patients (44). As our patients were ill enough to be admitted to hospital, many were likely beyond this timepoint. Unfortunately, this was not known at the time sample collection was initiated and only became evident towards the end, with the study terminated at 6 months. By then, new UK daily cases had decreased from 55,892 (31st Dec 2020) to 4,052 (31st March 2021), hospitalised patient numbers were declining and co-morbidity and ventilatory support in these patients rendered them ineligible for randomisation (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk), making further recruitment impossible. Amongst patients with live virus, saliva was collected before rinsing (baseline), and at 1-, 15-, 30-, and 60-minutes post-rinsing, with mouthwashes containing either containing CPC/IPM (Dentyl Dual Action, n = 8), CPC/benzoate (SCD Ultra, n = 7), PVP-I (Videne, n = 6) or 0.9% w/v NaCl (Normasol, n = 6). Data is shown as both log2-fold reduction from baseline (Figure 5 D) and as individual patient data (Figure 6). Across the entire cohort, baseline salivary viral load varied widely, from 120 PFU/ml to 2.8 × 107 PFU/mL (Supplementary Data1.xls). All four mouthwashes reduced salivary viral load 1-minute post-rinsing, with the smallest reduction being from Normasol® (median 3.9 log2 fold reduction from baseline) and the largest Dentyl Dual Action where 6/7 patients recorded no live virus (median 14.3 log2 reduction from baseline) (Figure 5 D, Tables 3,4). The persistence of the effects varied with rinse. No significant reduction in salivary viral load was seen with Videne at any of the time-points, while for Normasol® a significant reduction was apparent only at 60 minutes. For SCD Ultra, a significant reduction in viral load was seen at 1 minute only (median 8.9 log2 reduction from baseline, Figure 5 D). Dentyl Dual Action was the only product to demonstrate a persistent effect, with a significant reduction evident throughout at 1, 15, 30 and 60 minutes respectively (medians 14.3, 11, 8.8, 9, log2 reduction from baseline). Impressively, in 3/8 patients treated with Dentyl Dual Action, no live virus was recovered at any timepoint after the initial rinse (Figure 6)."
Jatw, first, thank you for your earlier reply. I appreciated your measured kindness - especially in a total vacuum of any other response.
I wish I had time for a proper response - hopefully later.
First thoughts are that yes, what a crying shame the trial was so small.
In 40% of the hospitalised patients, who would have the virus all over it never came back. That's amazing.
In the rest the results were only for up to one hour later. Oh! 99.8% reduction overall. ie probably in most it was also completely eliminated.
Basically it's clear but not proven - as before, but much more so - that's it's a very effective first line of protection.
I am "immunologically compromised". I have been gargling nightly. I have nice fresh breath, clean gums (I'm sure my dentist on the breadline is DEVASTATED!), and am living a normal life!
Why wait for the trial? It's cheap and it's not going to hurt you. £1.99 in Home Bargains. Lasts for months, you use half a capful. Recommend the clove not the mint :) !
WHERE ARE THESE RESULTS?
18th November 2020, RNS:
"Today, the Company provides an update on the recently published[1] in-vitro results from a separate, independent laboratory study undertaken at Cardiff University by Dr Richard Stanton and his colleagues.
In their published in-vitro[2] study, scientists at Cardiff University concluded that Venture Life's two CPC based mouthwashes eradicated the SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) virus completely (>5log reduction, equivalent to 99.999%) within a 30 second exposure."
1st December 2021, RNS:
"The Company continues to await the publication of the peer-reviewed in vivo study carried out by Cardiff University, which was completed in April this year. Whilst the Board is disappointed that this has taken longer than expected to publish, and does acknowledge that the timing is outside the control of Cardiff University, it is hopeful the final publication will be available soon. Further, the Company notes the recent announcement made by Salisbury Hospital regarding specific mouth care guidance for patients with Covid-19. As well as regular toothbrushing, the guidance also suggests that both Dentyl Dual Action and Dentyl Fresh Protect should be used. The Company understands this guidance was based on research conducted by Doctors at Salisbury Hospital, as well as the in-vitro (lab based) results widely published by Cardiff University in November 2020."
How is my throat going to be a fundamentally different environment from a test tube at the same temperature?
Open Orphan have been conducting trials where they infect volunteers with the virus deliberately: that way they can study the progress of the disease from day 1. According to one of the BBC science programmes (Inside Science?) that shows it starts in the throat, moves to the nose, then on. Gargling 1/2 X per day with something that kills 99.999% of the virus should therefore eliminate it or slow it down so much the body has no problem preparing for it and dealing with it. Thus effectively it would work as a free vaccine as well. It's CHEAP, it's EASY, it's already known as SAFE, it's already IN PRODUCTION, with DISTRIBUTION CHANNELS IN PLACE WORLDWIDE.
I emailed - politely - but got no answer.
I cannot see how this would not have saved many, many lives. The trial finished in APRIL.
Sometimes it's right to be very, very angry.
I work with brokers for part of my stuff. Rang them to get into the placing within 5 minutes of the RNS yesterday - and they still didn't manage it. But I didn't know till it was too late this morning.
Frustrating. So now I own a smaller proportion of a slightly larger company, into which others have been allowed to buy at a 25% discount. AndI did everything right....
BUT it's a good sign of things to come. Still v v positive about where this is going.
APART from the rare earths this is how the CEO began last week:
"The results of the programme have demonstrated that the gold system at Clarke is considerable in size, open to the north and continues to present as a compelling target to add further ounces to the existing Mineral Resource Estimate."
Then the rare earths add a whole new dimension. Even if the gold hadn't been economic to mine in the end [no hint of that that I've seen] with the REE it then probably would have been. And the SP was right at the bottom. I don't get the problem.
This from 8th Feb:
"Whilst the Board believes that the price of 40 pence per share significantly undervalues the Company discussions between the parties remain ongoing and, in accordance with Rule 2.6(c) of the Code, the Company has requested, and the Panel on Takeovers and Mergers (the "Takeover Panel") has consented to, an extension to the deadline by which Kofax is required either to announce a firm intention to make an offer for Tungsten in accordance with Rule 2.7 of the Code or to announce that it does not intend to make an offer, in which case the announcement will be treated as a statement to which Rule 2.8 of the Code applies. Such announcement must now be made by not later than 5.00pm on 22 February 2022. This deadline can be extended by the Board of Tungsten, with the consent of the Takeover Panel.
There can be no certainty that a firm offer will be made nor as to the terms of any such offer. A further announcement will be made in due course."
According to this the next deadline is a week today. Does anyone know further?
Still frustrated. I lost money here before, now it seems to have got its act together and have real prospects.
For example this news from the company website that they didn't seem to think was worth an RNS (!!):
"London, 5 January 2022: Tungsten Corporation plc, a leading provider of digital financial management and software solutions is collaborating with Amazon Business to deliver global e-invoicing in Europe and the U.S.A.
Amazon Business is an online store and procurement solution that helps millions of customers worldwide—from small businesses, schools, hospitals, non-profit organisations, and government agencies, to large enterprises with global operations—reshape their procurement with cost and time savings, greater productivity, and insightful purchasing analytics. This integration will allow Amazon Business customers to automate invoice processing via the Tungsten e-invoicing network."
Now up to 12.31%.
Keen.
"I hope to add here at these levels. Just waiting for news elsewhere to sell into then will be topping up.I hope to add here at these levels. Just waiting for news elsewhere to sell into then will be topping up."
Me too, Trek. SNG?????? :)
I note also it's produced by fungi through fermentation of carbohydrates, such as glucose or molasses. If they could use other less sugary carbohydrates/hydrocarbons such as wood pulp, sewage etc it would be such an amazing positive circle. Who knows, might be able to produce hydrogen! Dream on Qd.... [I'm no chemist!]
What a great time to have bought back in. Yes, it's jam tomorrow, but it is a shipload of jam if it comes! And it's the 2nd load in just 6 days, 3rd in 7 weeks. Meanwhile as I'm sure you've noticed it continues to progress in the areas where it already has a foothold - and the SP has plummeted on what looks like just sentiment.
Topped up, even though it's painful when it's risen 20%.