Member Info for Piltick

One way that I could see ITM and AFC working together would be if ITM can produce hydrogen on a large scale from renewable electricity (and I believe they are moving in that direction already) then perhaps AFC could become a customer of ITM and buy ITM's hydrogen to produce ammonia for distribution to EV chargers, generators, etc.

But I really don't see much opportunity for AFC to sell electricity to ITM.

To be fair, two of ITM's installations get their power directly from renewable sources, one solar and one wind. So the more off-grid arrangements, the better.

This may have been posted before:
https://www.rechargenews.com/transition/turning-plastic-waste-into-hydrogen-first-commercial-plant-moves-step-closer/2-1-733678

ITM are using renewable electricity from the grid to produce hydrogen on site i.e. at the service stations. So it we end up with a huge number of these systems at service stations to provide hydrogen for cars, then that will put a strain on the grid in the same way that thousands of charging points for EV will put stress on the local distribution network.

Which brings us back to the same argument that has been discussed about AFC's EV charging systems, off-grid has to be the answer. As far as AFC is concerned, I would have thought that in the long term the production of the hydrogen/ammonia that they will be using must be produce using renewable electricity off-grid, probably on an industrial site somewhere near a wind-mill or solar farm. But I'm not sure how that can work for ITM.

Just a thought.

Because he's got a crystal ball.

Well, last year the Quarterly update was on 17th January, and the year before that it was. on 30th January, so I would hope that it's not far away.

That's right stokey. It seems that this a point that is often overlooked on this board and others. The planning application, and hence the planning permission when it comes, will be in the joint names of W2T and Peel as the "developers", not PHE.

Thanks for that telephoneman. Good stuff.

It's rather difficult to know what's going on behind the scenes with no updates from the company, but surely there must be some fairly in-depth discussions going on with interested parties even if they haven't quite got to the point of signing off orders.

So this raises another question. Even if they can invest enough for the national grid to keep up with demand, can they find the workforce to do all the construction work on time, and can the renewable energy generators keep up and still have a balanced grid? It seems to me no point in extending the national grid if they have to use diesel generators for the base load to keep up with the demand.

Audible, Bumble is only explaining what is required by law, he is not a member of a protest group.

The RNS dated 23rd December only gave a brief summary of the proposed agreement for the take-over, so at this stage there are a lot of details that we don't yet know. And of course there may be changes during further negotiations before the final legal documents are completed. The shareholders' circular to be issued by PHE prior to the EGM will contain all of the details that we will need to make a proper decision, and I can safely say that because I know that it absolutely must, so we will just have to wait until that document comes out.

Incidentally, I don't really expect the shareholders' circular to be issued before planning permission is granted as shareholders would not be in a position to make a proper decision in order to vote before then.

Personally, I believe that in the current situation trying to put a value on W2T in terms of £ is a red herring. As things stand at the moment, under the current structure and relationship between PHE and W2T, both companies are stuck in a rut. W2T are supposed to be PHE's marketing arm and has rights to carry out the development and operation of the DMG units. Yet they have been unable to obtain funds to construct the first unit at Protos. PHE have given rights away to W2T to the point that they are just about impotent (perhaps I exaggerate) and don't have the resources to build and operate the first DMG unit themselves. PHE don't have the lease for the site at Protos, because W2T have the lease, and they don't have planning permission for the first DMG unit, nor will they have because the planing application is in the names of W2T and Peel. W2T will be the recipient of a grant of £1.25M when planning permission is granted, not PHE.

So it's stalemate all round right now, and although Manabouttown may be exaggerating when he says that if the take-over deal doesn't go through, PHE could end up in administration, he may not be very far wrong. As things stand, neither company is going anywhere fast.

So it just isn't relevant to be trying to put a value on either company in terms of £, as things stand at present, IMHO.

But what I believe is vey relevant, is to look at what value we might expect an enlarged company to have comprising both PHE and W2T, under one management team with combined strategy, objective and ambition. This extended company would have the lease from Peel and hopefully planning permission in the next few weeks. They would also be in a much stronger position to obtain funding for the first DMG unit.

After the take-over there would be 3,270 million PHE shares in issue. At the nominal value of 0.5 pence per share, that would give the enlarged company a Market Cap of £14.4M. At today's closing mid price of 0.75 pence the Market Cap would be £24.5M.

Now I don't know how other pis may feel about this, but it seems to me that given the sort of potential that we could expect the enlarged company (combining PHE and W2T) to have, with the road wide open towards the first DMG and beyond, a Market Cap of £14M or £24M does not appear to be excessive by any means. In fact it seems more than a tad light to me.

And if it means that PHE shareholders have to use 1308 million PHE shares to bring the two companies together in order to create a solid enlarged company with a fantastic potential, then as an investor in PHE I'm all for it.

And as I say, it's irrelevant what £ value anyone wants to put on W2T in its present form, and to me it's irrelevant how much the present W2T shareholders benefit from it, if we can get to where we want to be.

Bridgedog, the RNS states that there will be a one-year lock-in for selling any of the shares, with an "orderly" restriction thereafter, whatever that means. So they won't be able to flood the market with shares.

Well, not really vague stokey. Looking at the actual numbers:
PHE shares currently in issue 1962 million.
Additional PHE shares to be issued to buy W2T 1308 million.
Therefore total PHE shares in issue after take-over 3270 million.
So then shares used to acquire W2T = 40% of the new total (1308/3270)
And the original number of PHE shares = 60% of the new total (1962/3270)

Of course any of that may change by the time that the final document is issued.

LedZep, we knew that already! A few weeks ago someone on this BB (could have been sharesport) asked David Ryan and and received a reply that was to go to the committee on Feb 4th.

Stokey, let's see if I can explain. There are basically two ways that a take-over can be effected, one would be to create a new top company or Holding company, which would then buy the shares of both of the "target" companies, in this case PHE and W2T. The second which I understand from the RNS is the method being proposed, is that PHE "buys" all of the shares in W2T, thereby forming a "Group" of two companies. Under this scenario, PHE would be the parent company holding 100% of shares in W2T, and W2T would still exist as a company but would be a 100% subsidiary of PHE.

That is what I understand is being proposed. But instead of paying cash for the shares in W2T, it is proposed that PHE issues shares to give to the current shareholders of W2T in exchange for their current shares in W2T.

The RNS doesn't mention a value terms of £ because that is irrelevant. It does however suggest that the new issue of PHE shares for the purchase of W2T will represent 40% of the new total of PHE shares that will be in issue in the new enlarged company. So the actual number of W2T shares in issue doesn't matter at all, because the total number of W2T shares, however many that might be, will be exchanged for the new issue of PHE shares.

Clear as mud!

I think it's also worth pointing out that it doesn't matter how many additional shares are issued by W2T because it seems that the offer will be c1,309 million PHE shares for the entire shareholding of W2T, regardless of how many W2T shares are in issue at the time.

Well, perhaps that's one way to look at it.

Audible, W2T will still exist as a company after take-over, it's just that it will have a new shareholder and will be a 100% subsidiary of PHE.