Member Info for phoenixchi

If Andrew Black had waited this long, and had to suffer so much bad news, before Betfair made him a very wealthy man I'd doubt he'd have had the patience to stick around! I cannot recall any company (HYR) ever having so many setbacks. They should pack the game in because the problems they continually encounter suggests to me they are never going to 'make it pay'. Talk about 'jam tomorrow'. The irony is that my �2k interest is with Beaufort Securities so I can't even sell the bl**dy things!!!

Good summary, Nastid. Fall of 20% today was overdone and shows just how many speculators play this share - and not sensible ones either, but ones who squeal if they don't see an almost instant profit. BUT, BUT, BUT, this must be the slowest moving business 'turnaround' in history. Indeed, after all these years I can't help but think that this business model might not ever work. I labelled HYR 'jam tomorrow' a few years ago and, sadly, I still think it. 'Jam tomorrow' rules in the UK - from the English national football team through to politics. 'We've got great youngsters and we look forward to 2002' - England after 1998 World Cup. Well, we are still waiting and have seen almost two generations of 'youngsters' since. Same with the UK economy. Successive governments trying to buy votes with promises that never happen. Sadly, much the same with HYR. Yes, they are well positioned, yes, they have improved a bit, but it is ridicolous to promise so much for so long and never deliver. I have a throwaway �2k in them, just in case. But, in reality, I have lost hope. I've seen them fail, and make excuses, too many times. Allied with how they have now become a 'casino chip' share, leads me to believe I might as well write off the �2k!!!

Anyone have any information as to why we are seeing fairly sharp drops on this one in recent days? is it profit taking after recent rises, or has something happened us pi's don't know about? Sensible replies only, please. The guesswork on this share on all bulletin boards is really daft and whenever we get any ramping it always kicks off a fall!!!

I've posted before about this, more than once. I've followed, and been a holder of HYR for 7 years now. Currently hold around £2k worth and showing a hefty % loss, but it is only a small holding for me. I've traded shares for over 30 years and more now and today cannot believe just how many investors seem to buy in and then ignore what the market continually tells them. We live in the age of hype and most share posters on the internet prove it. Just because you want something to happen - in this case the SP to rise - doesn't mean it will! No hype on earth will move HYR. Not for the first time, the fundamentals of HYR look quite good - compared to other times at least - yet the market is having none of it. The share is largely unknown but more importantly, the big buyers who do know about it simply don't like it. They have had spurts of enthusiasm in the past but the SP has dropped and dropped. Why don't the big buyers like this share? 1/ They have good product and a good idea but have continually failed to deliver with it. 2/ No business should take as long as this to make such a good idea work. 3/ They are mishap prone. 4/ They promise much but deliver little and the 'jam tomorrow' label I put on them a good while back remains firmly in place. 5/ Without Andrew Black they would be a 'gonner'. The market knows this and also knows that he could afford to walk away because the fortune he amassed from Betfair makes this a pocket money investment for him I don''t think he will walk away but the market knows just how dependent the company is on him. So, why do I keep hold of my £2k worth? Simply because i still believe in their idea and am fortunate enough to not have to worry about an £800 loss on a £2k punt. If, though, the shares hit 3p - IF - then I will be gone but it would be much better for posters on this board to stop pushing the virtues and promise of HYR and accept that they have always failed to deliver and remain a company the market DOES NOT LIKE.

I love money and good luck to JL but how much more does he need? He invests 63.5% of his sale proceeds and continues to make more money with PAYS as a privately owned entity. Well, he is a bl**dy fool for carrying on. Life is too short to keep on working and trying to accumulate more when he has copped for over £50 million. Instead, why not enjoy his vast wealth and use his abilities and ego to work part-time in doing some good in the world for those genuinely less fortunate. Also, if you were his boss at the new owner would you trust him to be motivated enough to carry on? No, I wouldn't. Like I say, good luck JL. You have disappointed a lot of PI's by accepting this offer but with over £50 million in your back pocket, get out there and enjoy life now. You must be a pretty dull guy if trying to make yet more cash still appeals!

I don't think ther are allowed to buy shares above their bid price without moving the bid price up. This is market speculation with regard to a higher bid coming.

Ok, some things to consider this morning. 1/ We now have a formal bid accepted by the BOD. Only at this point was another bid likely to be made. I suspect any such bid will not come until after the trading update next Tuesday. 2/ if there is no other bid, the price of 590p may look fairer. After all, the estimations of the SP have been speculations, albeit, well thought through ones by wel read posters. If the rest of the industry doesn't think a higher bid than 590p is worth it, that surely gives us a reasonably accurate valuation? 3/ Lets not forget that the other company in this field (Worldpay, I can't immediately remember) subject to takeover went at a price lower than anticipated and was not subject to a bidding war. 4/ The latter suggest to me that either this sector of the payments industry is still riskier than private investigators realise, OR, the sector is corrupt with takeovers on the cheap. 5/ We must also remember the long pattern of upward movement on PAYS shares. Some of that movement was down to speculation and if a bid at 590p had been made on an SP of, say, 4 quid, we'd feel better about it. Now, I'm not defending the BOD here but they are in a better position to judge than we are. My gut feeling after having held OPAY since the 90p days is that this is a low bid but I'm not going to fret over it because I don't have the insight of the BOD. I just hope that the valuations put up by various private investors prove accurate in the coming days via another bid arriving on the scene. We shall see and fingers crossed.

Stag, Hyr is not run by a professional gambler. Andrew Black is a major shareholder and, among other things, is said to have been a pro gambler many years ago. But he made a vast sum of money, reportedly 300 million quid, when he sold his interest in Betfair. He was the driving force and one of the founders of Betfair in the late 1990's. Betfair started trading in the early noughties and has been a money making machine ever since. I invested in HYR a long time ago because I saw Black had put money in and because the technology for oil refinement looked good, I've have lost money and made money on this one and am currently in for a just 2k's worth but am well down again now. HYR have previously had the knack of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and this board often attracts a good few wishful thinkers who fail to see that the company generally fails to deliver. At current share price they are worth a punt, but it is definitely only a punt given their chequered history.

Stag, Hyr is not run by a professional gambler. Andrew Black is a major shareholder and, among other things, is said to have been a pro gambler many years ago. But he made a vast sum of money, reportedly 300 million quid, when he sold his interest in Betfair. He was the driving force and one of the founders of Betfair in the late 1990's. Betfair started trading in the early noughties and has been a money making machine ever since. I invested in HYR a long time ago because I saw Black had put money in and because the technology for oil refinement looked good, I've have lost money and made money on this one and am currently in for a just 2k's worth but am well down again now. HYR have previously had the knack of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and this board often attracts a good few wishful thinkers who fail to see that the company generally fails to deliver. At current share price they are worth a punt, but it is definitely only a punt given their chequered history.

Agreed. The financial authorities are useless and are allowing more and more blatant market manipulation. Perhaps, though, this drop will be seen as an opportunity for some shorters to close out. Also, if I were running PAYS, I'd think about buying out Spotlight Reaearch to put a stop to this utter nonsense!

Yup, very frustrating. But AIM is like a casino. Also, no matter how many want to talk this share up on here it keeps falling. Of course, there are reasons why but I do wish posters would stop with the optimistic messages. Instead, just sit quietly and wait to see if it ever does fulfill its potential. A horse cannot be made to win a race by a punter shouting at it. A note of caution to end, though. I have been here before with HYR - at higher prices. They have been in promising positions before and still failed to move forward. I suspect the market has a longer memory than a lot of today's punters. BTW - I still hold a speculative amount so I want to see a jump forward as well...

Why do I keep reading so many posts about this one is set for a jump, or will fly, or is about to break free, etc etc, when the SP falls 4 out of 5 days? I'm still in but its always been the same here. Plenty of promise, plenty of hope, plenty of talk, but no action. Making excuses for beaten horses is the way to the poorhouse. Fully expect to be mocked now, but I have never looked at shares through rose-tinted glasses...

Pleas tell me that this price drop has got nothing to do with it being the day the CEO pays back that share loan from a couple of years ago? I think repayment day is today. Surely the markets are not that stupid and fickle they see mention of the repayment and misinterpret it?

Yes, I would agree hate we are never to far away from insani on the modern casino-type stock markets. BUT, the volume of shares bought against the volume sold certainly cannot always be relied upon as indication of what direction a share price should travel. Here's why. If Wareen Buffet sells 5 million shares in a company but the general public buys 10 million, the chances are the mm's will still push the price down because they trust Buffet more than the public. One large seller, especially an influential one, will probably have a more committed view than two or three times the number of smaller buyers, and vice versa. The mm's are only trying to make money, after all and will push and pull the sp to fulfill that purpose. But, if an individual thinks the sp has behaved irrationally compared to the buys and sells, thereby exists an opportunity for them to jump in. Whether markers are manipulated or not, eventualy they will return to a point that does reflect the supply and demand figures.

All of the latest posts replying to my point about the results show what dreamers many of you are - and just how unrelaistic share holders can be. I've been trading shares for thirty two years now, and worked in the City for 20 years plus in IT, mostly supporting the dealing floors. I bought HYR seven years ago, took some profits, then came back in. That time, though, I held too long and took a hit from 15p down to 8p before getting out after the fire - the latest in a series of mishaps. Watched it for years before buying back in during January and then taking a 70% profit on the rises early in the year. Finally, I bought £5k back, as a speculative bet in case the company makes good on this latest promising position. So far, around £300 down so I am not posting because of a very minor loss. No, I'm posting because I'm old enough and experienced enough to know that if a company wants to join the bigger boys - no matter what their field of operation - they need to sharpen up their act and look professional. And a big step towards that is letting the world at large, and especially their shareholders, know when their results will be announced. The latter is part of being professional.. After all, they must know their results date, or perhaps they don't. Perhaps they are making it up as they go along? Their are a lot of dreamers on this board. A lot. One person starts sounding off about a TR1 detailing Aviva's apparent selling and off many of you go. All guesswork about Aviva. My money is that Aviva stopped selling weeks ago and the fall in price in recent weeks have been those selling who were looking for fast profits but have become impatient waiting. Lastly, surely some of you must know that a lot of BOD's are self-serving? Surely you do? It has long been my view that the HYR board, past and present, are pretty much like that. It's not like the company hasn't shown promise before but, as yet, it has NEVER delivered. So, wake up. HYR is a speculative stock with good current prospects. That's why I've got £5k in but take off your rose-coloured glasses. They have failed before and making excuses for beaten horses is the way to the poor house. To end - a specific message to countingcards. Don't be so insulting with your posts. I have made a bit of money out of HYR and was probably into them well before you were. What have I done that is so laughable? Just because I am back in, actually reinvesting some of the profit from earlier in the year, doesn't mean I can't see their bad points as well as their good. The BOD is not good at communicating and, I'm afraid, in today's mad, media driven world, communicating is often more important than delivering. Currently, HYR need to do BOTH. Like I said a few weeks back. The 7p and 8p prices some of the posters have speculated about are crazy. My target is 4p by next March. If they make it, I'll stop loss behind the profit but if they don't well that will

I've said this before. I hold a few of these as a speculative stock but I think some of the wild talk on this board is a bit mad. To start with, the fact the company is making no effort to announce a results date? Hardly professional and showing concern for their shareholders is it? Why would the latter situation exist? IMO because they remain a chancy outfit where the BOD look after themselves first and foremost.

I hope you are correct but HYR have been 'under starters orders' before and failed to run a race. Last time they fell because of the fire but, as I keep saying, make too many excuses for beaten horses and you find yourself skint! I'm hanging on here long-term with a small stake but it is tedious to keep reading posts of future riches only to see the SP drop 4 days out of 5. However good the prospects, however good the product, however good the management, etc etc, HYR have consistently failed to deliver. A year for me and if not 4p by then, I will be away for good. I would suggest other posters tuck their holdings away and stop ramping, intentionally or by accident. We will not make the SP increase via this BB!!!

Stag, I don't fully understand the bit in one of your recent posts. 'If I have read this properly, the guy buys UK operation for peanuts and sells it to the Betfair founder...' But, going by the previous paragraph to this when you are talking about Andrew Black, the 'guy' who did the buying was Andrew Black? So, if I'm correct - and I may not be - Andrew Black buys the UK operation for peanuts and then sells it to himself, because he was the Betfair Founder! Like I say, I may have misread this but the implication is that he bought the UK operation and then sold it to himself?

This is an unjustified drop so far. But this was my fear. so much hype on here and if that was an indication of the general mood, many bought in expecting to see a big jump upon results day for whatever reason. It hasn't come and now those investors are selling off. Hopefully, later in the day the more level-headed will see how good these results are and buy back in. A good example, though, of why the bull market needs a general correction. To rid it of the type of share buyer who thinks it is easy money very fast. It very rarely is. Lastly, I will be interested to see if PAYS start buying back today at any any point.

Well, a bad start in very, very early trading when figures can be unreliable. Sizeable drop on 150,000 volume. Hopefully will move back but I hope this isn't the shorters moving in. If it is, then the markets stink because these results do not deserve to see the SP caned.