Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
All plausible explanations Starage and I wouldn't discount it though I would of course hope it is not the case.
I'm not sure on the one with Zaza & SN trying to reclaim their money. They might see it as the only way but I'm guessing they had a bit of an idea the way things were going before delisting. That would have been an ideal time to sell their shares. Shortly before delisting because I bought at the bottom of it all my shares had more or less roughly doubled in price. My thought that it would allowed Zaza & SN a certain amount of money back, better than nothing. After all they alone have many, many times the shares I do. If they are serious about getting their money back through action against Hope their going to need the evidence and a good case against him. For the amount they are claiming I'm not sure if they would get all of that, if at all.
While I think possibly 1 of the 3 things you mentioned may be likely I think there are many variables here so it's probably unlikely that all 3 are what has happened. I'm guessing though we may find out as this unfolds, yet another saga in the FRR epic.
Kipper, then why did the GG bother fighting FRR if nothing was there? Why does Hope persist? Why are Zaza & SN taking court action against Hope/Outrider? It's the old 'you don't fight over an empty box' argument that holds sway here I think. Remember also that FRR has paid good lobbying money to the US, no real point in that if there is little to nothing there. They could have wrapped the whole thing up shortly after delisting and walked by they've chosen to go on this long and fight it out. I don't see the point in that if little to nothing there. If it was to defraud the company then they would later be brought to book anyway so no real gain from them doing that either. I've always felt the danger to this share is having the rug pulled from under our feet before there is time to get new finance in. I'm hoping that is not the case here. Zaza has had a fair amount of time now to reorganize finance so I think now would be the time for him to come through.
If Hope were to end up restructuring FRR if he somehow got into that position I'm guessing possibly through liquidators then surely it is down to the duty of the liquidators to get the best deal possible. So even if that were the case it might not be all a complete wash out.
Zaza has to care he has millions invested in FRR shares. He has also gone along the path of keeping FRR going all this time since delisting. Would he really bother with that if he didn't care?
I believe the comments on restructuring was some interview in some paper somewhere, that's the best I can remember of it from about a couple of months back. Think he was just referred to as a Director or something though at that time he had stepped down as CEO of Frontera to do the restructuring apparently. He seemed sincere in his comments on restructuring. I am certainly hoping that there is something to it and not a load of bull. If the data is to be believed they are stood on a vast fortune and I don't see why Zaza would buy more shares into that or not sell shares before delisting if there were not truth in that data. I don't see why he would fight all the time since then if there was nothing in the data, after all it would be better to go off and lay on a beach than bother with it all for a laugh or whatever.
It might seem unfair of me to say there has seemed to be a sense of malaise with this share. That there is apparently a vast fortune there but it's just being allowed to drift when FRR should be tapping into it. I would have thought now post arbitration that there would be many investors and SM's that would be interested in investing in such a field. Probably a lot of work has gone on into keeping us going and some waiting unfortunately necessary. I just kind of think now is the time to pull the rabbit out of the hat if there is one.
My only other thought is maybe Hope is trying to force Zaza's hand into a payout of the loan notes. All a bit weird as not sure where we are with the restructuring, assuming we are anywhere, unless Hope knows more.
I kind of hoped that Zaza would have come through with something by now on the restructuring. I know it takes time and with new finance it takes then time to due due diligence and the legal stuff but I'm not sure if we can go much longer by the looks of things.
Zaza seemed committed to the restructuring and seems an able guy to me but I'm not sure how he is going to deal with this one or what's he been up to since his last announcement.
Interesting move, what does Hope have to gain from it? I doubt there if anywhere near $40 million in money if FIC's accounts. The main money is in the ground, Frontera have the data to that and they have the contract from the GG for that.
How much of Frontera would be wound up eventually as a result of this and what would Hope get his hands on?
Outrider have apparently been making big losses on their other investments and that looked set to continue due to the pandemic/economic situation, is this a last desperate move by them to save themselves? After all why haven't they don't it sooner?
My only thoughts is possibly Hope will try and claim the data as an asset for it to be sold on as one. That would still require whoever bought it to go to the GG for a new license agreement. Theoretically the GG would likely grant one as they would be the only ones then knowing where the oil & gas are - with the legally classified version at least. I'm not sure if any of the above is possible, anyone else here have ideas on this?
I don't know how quickly these winding up orders can be established/granted and actioned. If it is already before the judge maybe that is quite soon.
I'm guessing the data could fetch a fair price if it were sold off but that would be mitigated by any buyer buying it without a contract at that actual time from the GG I guess.
Unless of course I'm on totally the wrong tack with all of this, but I guess Hope is taking this course if action for a reason.
Glad I didn't didn't go into law school think it would do my head in dealing in all that babble all day.
So I may be totally wrong in this but am I right in thinking that judgment was made in YA's favour but Frontera eventually managed to get it stayed pending appeal in some manner?
Thinking it kind of stands to reason that Zaza has gone off to do this restructuring in secret. I doubt he's just gone off for a long vacation he's heavily invested in FRR. Hope is greedily after the lot to make good on his Outrider gambling debts so a big investor coming in would weaken his position a good deal. Just have to sit on this one, could just be within weeks before we hear with a bit of luck. The way I see it there has to be reasonable time expected in which to piece together a deal it's not likely to happen in just a few weeks, it's probably likely to take a couple of months or so minimum.
I note some pessimism on here in recent posts. I think we are certainly better off than when the GG were trying to take the lot. I still believe Zaza is working on restructuring at the moment and hope it is going well. I don't see it as us losing out any less than him as we are all shareholders. If our shareholding gets diluted so does his. That said if a big investor coming in means they take a share (as one might expect) then the input investment will likely offset any dilution of sharing with another investor in my opinion. The share price in the final year or so before delisting likely reflected that we were not in good financial shape so a lot of that was probably already factored into the share price. Zaza is a businessman and he seems straight up and commited to the task in my view of him. I would have hoped that some news would of come forth but restructuring can of course take a while. I think we just need to sit tight and wait for news, hopefully in the next few weeks or so.
I'm guessing it stands to reason that Zaza is still at the Restructuring thing since I assume he hasn't returned to the existing FRR as it stands as CEO/Director. Hopefully not too much longer to wait to see what comes forth.
Next time the GD will probably follow the Russian playbook again and have even more of a majority in what is supposed to be a multi party system based mainly on PR. Georgia is not in a good place at the moment, virus cases are rising but more importantly for the country itself businesses are shuttering daily, unemployment is going through the roof and poverty rising. I know of someone in Georgia that tells me this who actually lives there day to day. Some might off stayed at home from the GD but I'm guessing the GD pressed all the could to avoid the turnout looking even worse.
In the past governments that have used dodgy tactics have stayed in power after rigged Elections even with international condemnation and pressure that is true. This time I would say it's up in the air and could go either way. Part of that will likely depend on if the US comes out to put pressure on the GD. Zaza managed to show it can be done with FRR. It all depends on whether the US government want to rock the boat or try to make a go of it with the GD. The GD want to have the US onside to keep the Russians out from making Georgia another client state. The US is probably wary of whether it can trust the GD to leave alone US investments.
I wasn't saying that it will go the way of a new government in, the GD out and FRR back in the game just that it may be a possibility as things are. If nothing happens of note and it doesn't FRR will just have to muddle along with the GD and hope they will stop obstructing it, they might because if US pressure or they might not, maybe.
The latest news from Georgia is that just around 20 percent or so voted in the second round run offs, basically Georgian Dream supporters since the opposition parties boycotted the second round of voting. That gives us an idea of the electoral fraud since the GD claimed that 48 percent voted for them in the first round.
https://agenda.ge/en/news/2020/3675
The opposition are boycotting Parliament and refusing to take up their seats. That will stop the GD from making it look like that they are ruling over a multiple party system where they fairly won a majority of the seats. That potentially might have the impact of international pressure possibly from the US to redo a fair election before they will deal with them.
What if any the ramifications may be of how this plays out for Frontera who knows?
Stuff could still be being held up with the Georgian Election, second round run offs happening apparently today:
https://www.foreignbrief.com/daily-news/2nd-round-of-georgian-elections-scheduled-to-take-place-amid-protests/
I was personally hopeful that we might have smelt a sniff of restructuring that Zaza had talked off by now, but maybe after the second round/towards the end of this month. I rather hope that he was serious and that it wasn't some attempted ploy to try and sort out the Hope mess early. I don't get the impression that Zaza works that way, my impression was that it was necessary on business grounds for FRR. I certainly think it is what FRR needs right now as we can't afford to rumble on with nothing much happening. FRR certainly needs a big investment to turn the oil & gas fields developed and profitable. That or a sell off to a SM.
I personally have never thought that Zaza is in any way dodgy. My main fear is that nothing gets done on the ground for a long period off time which is a massive waste for all of us. FRR have in all fairness been on the back foot fighting the GG with the Arb and Hope trying to take control. Now though a lot of that threat is removed and the company really needs to be sorted out for the benefit off all shareholders I believe.
That could possibly be telling off a restructuring I guess, anyone know if it was there before? first time I've heard talk of it on this forum. Good work Starage, hopefully this might be the first tell tell sign off the restructuring happening.
Indeed, I mean I'm working on the basis here that a multi-billion dollar oil & gas field is worth something to someone, lol.
Sounds like Hope wanted a quick win and payback for buying the loan notes on the cheap. If the up to 5p was rejected by the BOD etc back then, then it looks like they felt it could get way more so we'd be silly to settle for it now. I'm hoping that good news is around the corner as it sounds like there is real value here and so it's definitely worth something rather than the poor state off affairs that we've been seeing.
My thoughts are that the GG might now be as interested as FRR (are hopefully) in getting the oil and gas field developed. The ARB had gone through and they got what they got but perhaps not all that they wanted. However, it's probably clear to them now that they aren't likely to get all that they wanted as the US won't take it lying down and they desperately need the US onside to keep out the Russians. The Russians now have Armenia in their pocket as a result of the recent peace agreement they brokered with Azerbaijan. That should heighten feeling in the GD to avoid becoming a Russian puppet state. The GG has around 50 percent share with FRR and not likely to get any more, they will know that now so hopefully they'll be now interested in seeing the field developed.
I still assume that Zaza is restructuring the company and that it had more to do with it than just Hope. Since he hasn't reappeared back with SN under the old structure I assume it's still going ahead. That I assume would involve getting some investment in. In these Covid times a oil and gas field is not a bad investment compared to some other industries that have been shook to the core over it. With all the ARB/GG shenanigans I assume hopefully out of the way there could be a good chance of some real investment opportunities here. As shareholders our interests are no doubt best served by getting out of the current hole the company has been in and getting deals done.
So with a bit of luck I'm hoping that we'll hear some decent news soon.
Sounds like a load of gamblers down a Bookies telling each other they've got the next new hot tip.
Can't be bothered myself would likely end up in more good money being stuck in some dog end share going nowhere fast. I'm still hopeful of this one coming good but there are no guarantees. Don't think other shares are going to go any better whether listed or delisted.
Looks the weirdest thing ever. Apparently those interested have to send in to explain motivation before finding out if they can even enter??? So a competition to just get in the competition.
Let's hope the competition winners don't end up being stiffed on their prizes and it ending in another court case.
Like said though shows FRR are still going for the moment at least. Let's hope the extra info from these 17-23 year olds can help them out.
Looks clear to me from the translation that the GD have totally rejected Hope and will only be willing to consider the situation resulting from the court disputes, if it comes to that.
Gives me the impression that the US has made it clear in no uncertain terms for the GD to leave off Frontera.
Now would be a good time to restructure and sort the whole mess out and get on with developing the oil & gas field. Hopefully Zaza efforts are making progress here and hopefully we'll hear of a positive situation soon.
More comment on old news but essentially tells us there seems to be a consensus in the GD that Outrider isn't getting anything, so it's attempt has failed. They are pretty much stating they will only deal with them if they win their attempt to take over the company. However, if it results in liquidation that probably won't be how Outrider would like. To my mind there is nothing in the GD response to show that alters the situation as it exists already.
I'm hoping that matters are now moving on from this to more positive stuff for FRR. It looks like the GD are getting over their dispute with FRR (we hope) and hopefully towards a more neutral position where they can sort out a deal if needs be.
bbnews, court action can take a long time and cost a lot of money. It could end up being that you spend a lot of money and lose as the court may find that there is no issue. To date the only issue I can see is that the loan notes and terms of Outrider were not made aware to shareholders through an RNS. Possibly that might be why Cairn resigned or it might be for another reason. It might even be found that there is no issue about shareholders not being made aware through an RNS etc. In court a lot of stuff where you think you have a strong case can become unfounded. I personally would wait at least until news of this restructuring comes about and see how we feel then. The GD still need economic activity to occur in Georgia and with previous pressure from the US could well be more neutral to FRR. In a few days to weeks we could possibly here of a good restructuring situation for shareholders. At the end of the day we have 7 years till the lease expires so plenty of time in my view. Up to you and whoever else of course if you wish to take legal action but I personally wouldn't rush into it without being sure it is needed.