Member Info for onsolidground

Well if it's adjusting down as you say Telxx then it has got about another 5% to go. Effectively £25M for THG Ingenuity = £75M in shareholder monies is leaving the group. Whatever though is going on in the background all will never know.. It's either adjusting or another shareholder has been p# ssed off in final negotiations leading to last nights RNS and may have decided to lend out their shares in response and take it out on the share price.

Watch now to see how many of THG Ingenuity MM picks up, and then I suspect move quickly for Supermajority shareholder status and then appointing two Directors of his choosing to what is a scant Board presently. Maybe 1 or more mate go for SuperQualifying investor status and each chooses 1 Director each. Could you end up with virtually all the same faces in charge of THG Ingenuity? and to the good with THG shareholder monies.

I think the unfortunate thing is that the last minute changes RNS released after hours then finds its reaction next day in rising inflation numbers that all but quell any chance of UK interest rate cuts and then Shoezone pointing the finger fairly and squarely at the Labour Budget for increased costs and leading to store closures has just not helped sentiment.

Crikey though at the savagery of the fall and it looks like shorts are back across the back of this like a bad rash. Where it gets taken and the last 15 minutes in particular and UT will be important.

Fair enough Yorek, I can understand and respect that.

I wasn't around all of yesterday and most of this a.m to let people make up their own minds.

Woeful though that given 2 years to prep this demerger and final drafts come out when most if not all will have already elected. Worth studying both drafts side by side for what has changed.

I think all have a pretty good idea what is going to happen over the coming weeks.

Moniman

"Shoe Zone collapse is more proof that the high street is finished, but a very positive sign for the likes of THG's online business model...High Street fashion, beauty and accessories etc, etc cannot afford to pay sky high rents, rates, staff and all the other costs associated with bricks and mortar models."

You are aware that THG's Lookfantastic had just opened it's first brick and mortar shop on Altrincham High Street. (Presumably you need more than 1 to get economies of scale)

and the the likes of MyProtein were now focussed on branching out into supermarkets AND High Street Retailers to countenance declining online sales. (Boots, WH Smiths, Iceland, Sainsburys, Morrisons...) The partnership agreements also rely on selling through the same facia.

https://www.retail-week.com/health-and-beauty/thg-owned-lookfantastic-has-opened-first-permanent-store/7047161.article

The increases in National Living wage, NI hit for employers / retailers and now the rise in Inflation and fact it could stall Interest rate cuts off a highly cautious Givernor of the BofE are not good for any employer per se. THG and THG Ingenuity both employ a large amount of staff and will not be immune.

What other interpretations do you have Yorek?

CEO and CFO are important constituents of any Board, private or public.

Have the present CEO of THG Ingenuity Richard Ward and Chief Financial Officer Jon Parton resigned or been axed,

From the final version of the Shareholders Agreement.

2.2.4 As at the Effective Time, the parties agree that the Board shall comprise:

(a) Alistair Craine; and

(b) John Gallemore.

Not a good sign imvho and leaving the door open for the Super Majority shareholder to appoint 2 Directors and Super Qualifying shareholders the right to elect 1 Director.

OB, you are speaking to the converted on the trend being your friend.

However twice today from what I can see it retraced backwards.

"however the game seems to have changed today as we get nearer the demerger participation deadline..."

Maybe the case but it seemed to weaken into the close and finished with a whopping £1M Uncrossing trade at the lower end of the spread.

Just hone your eyes in on these two words in both posts by moniman and stanleyb.

"Selkirk Nonsense"

Lol

Just for you to compare.

moniman

Posted in: THG

Posts: 12,143

Price: 53.25

No Opinion

RE: Just for Okehurst1.......12 Dec 2024 16:55

Let's cut all the Carp and Selkirk Nonsense on this board....T

You posted out of character stanleyb

Stop the charade and can we have moniman back as that was their line.

They only issue 51% paper, or whatever percentage is agreed to THG existing. Not 100%. Sadly nothing in life is free.

So 49% new shareholders are created to stump up money at a premium to say pay down the debt and that's how much of the company the new uptakers will own - 49%

Said my piece and that's me done on the Selkirk plan.

Easier, less risky and less cumbersome ways to make money.

My money my choice. Your money, your choice.

If what you infer is correct Oke that would infer collusion which in markets is generally illegal. Can't see some of the "sharpest minds" in the game getting involved, but who knows

Where it falls down for me is on two fronts:

1. Moulding himself, friends, family, fellow Board, foundation and colleagues would all have to find in some cases substantial sums of money to pay their part of say any £400Million "premium" pricing. Or they get diluted.

2. Then there is always the danger that shorts will just walk the share price right back down, especially if it is MM associated. Like you say Yiab that's what can happens when your listed on the LSE.

There are many far simpler companies around and where you can get 51% and without all the potential conflicts of interest, tied in contracts, debts etc etc.

In any case any prudent shell vehicle looking to acquire would wait for the next numbers around mid January. If they miss then it becomes significantly cheaper.

Fair enough on the Helmsley point Yiab but it's the association with Numis, past or present I'm on about.

Financial engineering gone mad. Absolutely, and we turned down somewhere between 200p and 250p (If OVMK are correct) to be where we are now. And Apoll offered significantly over 65p for Ingenuity for it to be taken private for £25M and a £75M begging bowl to existing and new shareholders.

Now I watched the Iain Mac presentation 3 times and bearing in mind he was on the Board of THG right up until the end of March this year. In it he described the Kelso side of Selkirk Group onboard, namely John Goold, Jamie Brooks and Mark Kirkland as some of the "sharpest minds" in the business.

Yet as a THG Director he was quite happy to watch 95% of all advice given, including Kelso and theirs, binned.

In a word jed - No.

Happy to be proved wrong and for it to rise to my exit price and let me be gone well before any Jan trading update. To be fair last couple of ups and downs mean not far off.

I actually missed a number 7 off the list for why I don't think Selkirk would bid for THG and succeed. Just added it.

1. Minority ownership of less than 50% just doesn't work and won't sell to investors. You could sense that off the Iain Mac presentation.

2. Same investors you then also expect to pay a premium for a badge change and some tweaks?

3. Leaving the present PLC with 51%. (Own thoughts THG will end up with more presidents than the US if THG Ingenuity is the benchmark).

4. It's going to be hard to raise further bank debt when it is already debt burdened and without the 51% ownership or higher. In a City that supposedly won't touch THG with a bargepole.

5. Then you have present short positions and volatility as a big dissuader in enticing in further investors at a premium. Quickest route to losing your money.

6. Probably above all else, there are a multitude of companies out there, as parts of conglomerates or in private ownership, without all of the above. Providing a much safer investment case.

7. Oliver Helmsley, founder of Numis onboard at Selkirk. MM hates Numis with a vengeance.

If they narrowed the spread a bit.

Might attract in more Investors and trade also for what imvho I'm envisaging should be a good year ahead.

Fair old dividend to be fair so you have to agree with you and you can understand why people would buy in.

I think everybody is hoping it is part of THG that Selkirk will bid for, but realistically speaking

1. Minority ownership of less than 50% just doesn't work and won't sell to investors. You could sense that off the Iain Mac presentation.

2. Same investors you then also expect to pay a premium for a badge change and some tweaks?

3. Leaving the present PLC with 51%. (Own thoughts THG will end up with more presidents than the US if THG Ingenuity is the benchmark).

4. It's going to be hard to raise further bank debt when it is already debt burdened and without the 51% ownership or higher. In a City that supposedly won't touch THG with a bargepole.

5. Then you have present short positions and volatility as a big dissuader in enticing in further investors at a premium. Quickest route to losing your money.

6. Lastly and probably above all else, there are a multitude of companies out there, as parts of conglomerates or in private ownership, without all of the above. Providing a much safer investment case.

Party on dude...

"OSG spot on, MM revels on being the dastardly James Bond villain."

I wouldn't put it quite like that Oke.

I just find it completely contemptuous to be flaunting such corporate excesses when shareholders have lost an absolute packet and given the recent cap in hand fundraise and no doubt come the New Year some staff will more than likely lose their jobs once the have completed the busy Festive season. Being honest about it, Labour's budget has not done any employers any favours what with raising the National Living Wage and also the National Insurance hit. Currys for instance only last week said it would effectively result in £32 Million extra costs for them.

I'm not a fan of say Duncan Bannatyne but he made his millions through Bannatyne gyms and various other business ventures but as the story goes, in his earlier days he used to frugally reuse the paper clips off correspondence that had actually been sent to his company to save money.

Be humble...

And who picks up the tab !!

Never turned a profit for shareholders as THG conglomerate, revenues dropping, fractured share price, Kong bought then had to turn to belleagured shareholders cap in hand to fund a £75M placing to take THG Ingenuity private for £25Million.

Party on imvho.

Incredible

"THG has basically £paid to get shut so that gives you some idea of the value of Ingenuity today"#

Okehurst - No it's not THG that has basically paid to get shut.

It's shareholders.

But no doubt structured in a way that will no doubt benefit a few.

I'd like to think Iain Mac and Selkirk would be the saviour in all of this but think that it is less complex re minority stakes, less debt burdened and far easier just to go for something else and if you can tease up the THG share p[rice at the same time with innuendo then why not. That latter would have been both skilful and thoughtful if so imvho.

Just one other query point Cong on this Selkirk takeover aspect.

Would Institutions be inclined to rollover into Selkirk Group as the acquiror with Iain Mac as Chairman?

That's given several voted against him remaining on the THG Board two summers ago at the AGM and which 7 months or so later in all probability led to him stepping off the THG Board? Back then virtually 24% voted against his re-election.

https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/THG/result-of-agm-44s8i9loxqk6c4f.html