Member Info for Onbeyondzebra

“ Agree CWWX those who are prepared for the move have already requested certificates anyone else is better off selling now.”

How do you figure that hopeful? There’s a lot of us here who are interested in dividends going forward, and want to establish a position in Poly K early while the SP is low. Remember Poly K will at least be worth between £6-7 after the split. The sanctions won’t impact any of those plans.

You can buy on ii (Interactive Investor). But you need to ask for Certs by the 30th of June or ask for a transfer by the 25th of June.

seriously anon… really no point reasoning with bull****repeat. he’s pretty much insulted everyone on the board in the last 48 hours. apparently he’s the only genius in a world of idiots… though he rails if a post is longer than the three sentences that his attention span can permit. i think you’re the only one left that hasn’t filtered him and, when he realises he’s only talking to himself, he might leave to find more of his breed. (though admitted that hasn’t worked with bb who, by all accounts, has been in a circular discussion with himself for months/years.)

The Poly K spin-off presumably won’t be sanctioned - reading by what the American sanctions today said (i.e. that only Polimetall AO is sanctioned not Polymetal International). I’m not sure what this has to do with the point I’m making to NWD: that selling up and buying directly from an AIX broker might not allow you to transfer those new shares back to the FTSE registry if and when the time comes. Again, really have no idea…

Anon: you were, he is, and life’s just better if you filter him.

Yes… that would work. I thought the AIX price spiked on the news of the redom vote but if it’s come back to earth it might turn out cheaper. Perhaps one thing to consider is that if the Poly K half comes back to FTSE, they may offer for all those original FTSE holders to switch back to Crest FTSE shares. If you do it this way, you may not be eligible. But perhaps you could ask Poly IR that…

This has already been reported here, but it is being reaffirmed in American media (Bloomberg etc.) that the sanctions don’t impact the parent company, and should therefore have no material impact on day to day business:

“U.S. sanctions target only the Russia-based part of Polymetal - Polimetall AO - and do not apply to the parent company, Polymetal International PLC, which is based on Jersey island and owns assets in Kazakhstan. In May, Polymetal asked its shareholders to approve re-domiciling to Kazakhstan from Jersey as it hopes to separate its Russian and Kazakh businesses next year.”

In fact it’s good that the US has made that distinction, as it would now seem excessive for the UK to sanction Poly International before the redom. As I said earlier, what it does do is muddy the waters for HL investors that were thinking of staying put, as there is now no way HL will hold Poly R shares following the split.

Not sure why a complete collapse in share price matters to anyone that’s transferring their shares or going with paper certs. It just gives a top-up opportunity, which I was looking for anyway over the next couple of weeks.

Bbz: there’s an error in you message: Certificates can be requested from ii from an ISA accounts. They are “not permitted from SIPP, Pension Trading Account, or Junior ISA Accounts.” This is from the corporate action document they sent to all holders.

BS…R:

Filtered for just coming on here to be a (fill in with whichever four letter word you prefer). But I will say, if you want to assume the tone you’re putting on, or be taken seriously, it’s helpful to read at least one official document in circulation and (on a closely related note) have some idea about what you’re saying. Like BB, you’re just making more of a tit of yourself with every post you make.

I can’t solve this debate because, as my spiel last night outlined, I find the HL/iWeb approach - if that is what it is - not very well thought out and/or tailored to the current situation with Poly.

I, however, think the suggestions below that shares can’t be frozen to be incorrect. We’ve had enough guidance by Poly to know what’s going to happen to all unconverted shares on July 15. 1. The FTSE (Crest) shares become invalid as the company delists from FTSE 2. The FTSE registry of holders gets converted verbatim over to AIX with a 1-to-1 conversion of shares. (Note: brokers like ii have said they won’t hold these new AIX shares, so they will sell off in a fire sale between the 10th and 15th of July.)

So, in theory, HL et al. can decide to hold onto those newly converted AIX shares and keep them in a repository (even if HL doesn’t themselves trade on the AIX exchange). If Poly and HL come to an agreement, Poly could even send dividends to HL’s nominated account when they come around (though it has not been clearly promised that they will do so).

As I said, the bigger elephant in the room is what happens when those AIX shares stop being valid, following the split, and there are Poly K and Poly R shares? Will HL hold both lots for the UK investors? (I suspect they won’t hold Poly R.) By this point it’s presumably too late to backtrack, change the name on the Kazakh registry shares to the individual investors and allow the investors to take ownership. As such, the investors will likely just lose out on their Poly R entitlement. I get that it’s a faff for HL now, but it’ll be a tenfold faff for HL in the autumn when the company splits.

… flexibility to manage my holding in the future to its best effect.

Redmoor: I’m not an HL or iWeb investor so all I’ve got to go on are third hand accounts that these brokers are not advising to 1. sell up, 2. transfer to a AIX broker, or 3. move to certs (as ii has advised me). Rather, these third hand accounts seem to be suggesting that iWeb and HL are advising investors that they can 4. now keep their holding in situ (in their current account) and it won’t be liquidated. Again, I’d really want this confirmed in writing, as ii has made it very clear that my holding will be liquidated after July 10th if they had not be transferred out or made into certificates by the end of June.

Following that disclaimer: the sense is that these brokers (HL/iWeb) are effectively suggesting to freeze the assets in their current accounts ISA/SIPP etc. as they have done with Evraz holdings that weren’t converted into certs:

- The first concern (or question to be asked) is what happens to the dividends. I need roughly two years of dividends at the previous rate to pay off my entire investment - to give me a free ride on Poly - and I’d want to be pretty damn sure I was getting those dividends. Freezing my assets not only sound like I can’t buy or sell - which HL have made very clear - but that I may not receive the dividends either.

- Secondly, if all goes to plan then, following the summer, Poly will push to split the assets into Poly R (toxic from a Western standpoint) and Poly K (the good face of the company that can be reintroduced into FTSE or another exchange). It is not clear - to me at least - how this will work, but we assume we will have the choice to either get shares in both companies or, in some form, cash in on our Poly R entitlement and stick with Poly K. It is questionable at this stage if we would be able to draw dividends in Poly R with the current sanctions, but some of us may want to hold onto Poly R for giggles and see what the shares are worth when the dust settles. That would be my chosen approach.

I have a pretty clear idea how this might look if I go the paper certs + Tabys route. I will choose to keep both - if I am legally allowed to - and I will have shares in Poly R (presumably on MOEX with AIX cross-listed) and Poly K (AIX initially, but probably reintroduced to FTSE in due course). Hopefully if and when Poly K realists with FTSE, I will have the option to transfer my Poly K shares back into Crest Certs and re-add them to my ii account. On Tabys I would have my Poly R shares and, when the world becomes a saner place, I will be able to draw dividends on both.

Tell me how you imagine this playing out if your assets are frozen in your HL account? I have no idea, but the one thing I’m pretty sure about is that they will balk at holding your Poly R entitlement. To me, the HL/iWeb approach seems to be following the Evraz playbook, when it’s a completely different situation. I’m not sure it’s very well thought out, and I would feel that I don’t have flexibility to leve

And I personally wouldn’t recommend anyone doing anything until after the vote on the 30th of May…so on that we agree.

Jotom750

Do what you wish with your hard earned. The reason brokers send secure messages with official guidance is so that you know unequivocally what they are promising you. I personally will not base my actions regarding tens of thousands of pounds ‘solely’ on what someone making £17 an hour in a call centre says. My brother started his career as a manager in a brokerage call centre and he assured me that going ‘off piste’ was a rather regular occurrence… thus why it is singularly the area of the bank that has the highest turnover. He said staff tend to be great with the standard questions, because they follow the question tree on their computers, but many struggle with new or more nuanced policies. And, yes, I’m sure those recorded calls come in very handy when making those difficult staffing decisions.

In either case, it sounds like iWeb/Halifax and HL might be going down the same path with some kind of frozen shares fudge. It’s nothing I would want for my holding, but hopefully it will push other brokers to do one better and actually start holding and trading AIX shares.

Pvdave: I’m not sure where you are getting that. If you look in your documents link on your ii account, you’ll find a message from ii to all Poly holders saying they will convert to certificates at no charge. This has also been covered in previous threads where ii’s letter to investors has been copied in full.

Recklessferret: you ask a lot of good questions here, and I’d be loathe to take up iWeb/HL’s kind offer until they answer them to your satisfaction. I suspect they might find a way around the dividends problem - depending on how frozen your frozen assets are - but think the upcoming split will really flummox them.

A couple things to consider (though I’m as confused as you are):

1. Going down the route of keeping your shares with a UK broker might make it easier to convert them back to FTSE shares if/when Poly K relist. I was wondering if it might be harder for us Tabys lot to convert back, as we will be fully embedded in AIX, and the AIX listing isn’t going anywhere.

2. The split: I really have no idea how that is going to work either. The one thing I’m pretty sure about is that iWeb/HL probably won’t let you access or trade (or hold) your Poly R shares, as MOEX would be it’s main listing (perhaps with an AIX cross-listing?). I was thinking about the option of being able to take up more Poly K shares and renouncing Poly R - which is what the FT seemed to suggest - but that doesn’t work, does it (at least not in the sense of an option or swap)? It would completely disadvantage everyone because you would be adding more Poly K shares into issue and watering down the Poly K float.

Then there’s the option being suggested that you could take Poly R, but effectively opt out of their dividends (for the next decade or until whenever Russian sanctions permit). Wasn’t the whole point of the split being that no investors would be left out of dividends? I suspect that will be where we land, however: we are given the options to (A) sell up our Poly R slice if you can and, if we want, buy Poly K shares on the market, or (B) take your Poly R slice but maybe not receive dividends for the time being. (I say ‘maybe’ because I’ve read the sanctions and I’m not 100% sure that dividends would be blocked to foreign/western investors on AIX [though I’m sure they would if HL/iWeb was holding them as they won’t touch Poly R with a barge pole].)

Regardless, I think I’ve decided that I would want to keep my Poly R slice in either case. Geo-politics change eventually, and who knows how many assets Poly will be able to scoop up in Russian during this period of sustained upheaval. The Poly R shares might be worth an absolute mint in 20 years… and I doubt we’ll be offered much for them now.

I’m sure we’ll get lots more information about how the split would work from POLY over the coming months. I do think anyone that is concerned about getting their fair Poly R slice, really needs to scrutinise whether keeping their shares frozen in a UK brokerage would allow that to happen.

BB… don’t know how many times I have to say that you’re filtered. You’re filtered. You’re filtered because all you do is sow dissent and bone-headed conspiracy theories. You are perfectly qualified to apply for a job on Donald Trump’s new re-election campaign: 1. You love to suggest that the official legal guidance (in this case certs and/or Tabys) is the thing to be mistrusted. 2. You take individual credit for everything that normal/sane humans do naturally 3. You have the IQ of a peanut, so you would fit right in.

Jotom75

The reason I said ‘interesting… I look forward to the official guidance from HL’ is because there could be lots of reasons why you said a help desk employee said what you said they said. One of those reasons is because they don’t fully understand what HLs own policy is. To me, it still sounds like HL is confused in its guidance… not least because it won’t provide the privileges that all other UK brokers are providing, and seems to be trying to construct a workaround. They won’t provide certs so that you can actively control your holding, but are now offering to effectively freeze your assets in their accounts? The whole point of this redom is for investors to get dividends, and I don’t see how that would work through HL. What’s more, if/when there is a split, would you just lose your rights to half the company if it’s in HL? As I said, I really look forward to hearing what HL is proposing, but they haven’t sent anything yet in writing that answers those key questions.

Recklessferret: I apologise if “a lot of misinformation” made it seem like it was intentional on your part, which your subsequent emails has shown that it wasn’t.

The issue I had is that your text makes it seem like the advised route that the company is recommending is untenable, which I don’t think it is. We know HL (and previously iWeb) have said they won’t issue certificates, but all of the banks (Lloyds, Barclays etc.), and most retail brokerages, have said the would. So the ‘vast majority’ would not allow certificates was a mischaracterisation.

We’ve already touched on the fact that FF KZ does work and is a route that investors have decided to take (though I have chosen not to).

Also, we’ve already heard a lot about problems with Tabys, but the specific guidance from the company is to 1. email POLY and 2.wait for them to send you a Tabys code at the beginning of June and then 3. download the app and go from there: https://www.polymetalinternational.com/files/en/Tabys_guide.pdf

There may well be problems with Tabys, but it is too early to say there will be because the process involves Poly working with Tabys to set up a Tabys account for Poly investors. In short, we won’t know how well the app works until June.

This is obviously an unusual situation for investors, and I think we have to be vigilant and call out posters who make it seem that the official guidance is either unworkable or (in the case of BB) a big conspiracy set up to steal your shares. Sowing these doubts may convince investors to make rash, or unconventional, choices that could end up costing them in the long run. Again, I apologise if this wasn’t your intention…